The Old Folks Home

[getaclue]

The one thing that infuriated me beyond words with this is how in NY they sent Covid positive patients to nursing homes!

An FYI, Medicare runs out after 30 and other insurances have cut off dates for services also. After that they either need to send you to an extended care unit in the hospital or a nursing home.

So what did they do? To me it sounds as though they had no rooms at the inn so they shipped them out to nursing homes/rehab centers where the most vulnerable people reside.

I've worked in enough nursing homes and rehab centers to know that as the rule goes, they are not set up to handle large number isolation cases, nor are they staffed to handle them. Staff working isolation shouldn't work with the general census and vise versa. Good luck, ain't gonna happen.

I hope medicine has learned some lessons from this so that if and when it happens again it will be handled better......then again......Yeah, wishful thinking.

micro, I agree with you about it being infuriating that they sent Covid positive, recovering patients to nursing homes. Especially when you consider how they sent in the MASH type portable hospitals, and a hospital ship to help deal with it, and they barely got used. They turned things into a political statement, which they are still doing, instead of dealing with it strictly as a medical situation.

 

[getaclue]

Perris,
Here are 2 somewhat older studies, that help explain it better, but still line up with what you posted. They pretty much line up with what I was saying, with a distinction in what they are calling immunity, and what I'm calling immunity. What they are calling immunity should be called complete, or total immunity, meaning the recovered person has enough antibodies to completely prevent reinfection. For the most part, total immunity lasts anywhere from 6 weeks to 3 months.

They are not including partial immunity, which they know exists as well. The argument was in regards to how safe it would be for international travel, if a person had a high number of detectable antibodies. This is very misleading, since we know they are using serums with antibodies on people that are at very high risk, and they're working in varying degrees. It's important to include partial immunity as well.

Why is partial immunity important? All of today's modern influenza/flu vaccines do not provide 100% immunity for the viruses they're intended for, on all people. For example, the H1N1 vaccine, which is included in the flu shot, does NOT provide total immunity from Bird Flu for everyone that gets it. About half of the recipients will only get varying degrees of partial immunity, while a lesser number will not get any immunity benefits from it at all. Partial immunity is still a GOOD thing. It means the severity, symptoms, and duration are still reduced, if they catch it. Total lifetime immunity is usually non-existent with most influenza type vaccines. That's why they have to be repeated yearly.

Timing has always been a factor with influenza/flu vaccines too. Immunity is at it's peak shortly after receiving a flu shot, and dissipates over time, until it's time for the next flu shot. This means that being exposed to an influenza covered by the flu shot, shortly after receiving it, will provide a higher level of protection, than being exposed a month before the next flu shot is due. The antibodies being used in the Covid serum, are no different, except they need to be repeated every 2 - 5 months, instead of yearly.

Another thing to consider in these studies, is the inconsistency in the types of antibody tests. This too is mentioned. There is more than one type of antibody test, some being more accurate than others. Without some uniformity in testing, it tends to skew the results. Another thing mentioned, is that the tests have a hard time detecting antibodies below a certain level. This does not mean that they're not there, and offering some degree of partial immunity. Even 40% immunity, meaning the symptoms, and severity will be reduced by 40% can mean the difference between a severe case, and a semi-mild case, and enough to save lives.

As to the information regarding vaccines, their efficacy, yearly deaths in the US from influenza, etc. that information is on the CDC website.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-antibodies-fade-months-study/story?id=71406787
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200622/covid-19-antibodies-can-disappear-after-2-3-months

 

[Perris]

a distinction in what they are calling immunity, and what I'm calling immunity. What they are calling immunity should be called complete, or total immunity, meaning the recovered person has enough antibodies to completely prevent reinfection.

I don't see the distinction in what you are saying and what the article says.

The argument was in regards to how safe it would be for international travel,

Which argument? The Guardian article says nothing at all about travel, international or otherwise. The conclusion sums it up nicely:

"Shattock said the study was important and indicated that neutralising antibodies rapidly wane. “This certainly suggests that we cannot be confident natural infection will be protective for a significant proportion of individuals, nor certain of the duration of any protection.”

He added: “We would however expect that re-infection would be less severe for any individual as they will still retain immune memory allowing them to more rapidly respond. Nevertheless they could still be a source of onward transmission.

“It does indicate that vaccines need to do better than natural infection, providing consistent responses in the majority of individuals and sustained levels of protective antibodies. Ultimately this may require the use of annual boosting immunisations, particularly for the most vulnerable. This could be delivered alongside annual influenza immunisations.” "

 

[microchick]

Soooo basically what everyone is saying is that you will have to get re-vaccinated every 4-5 months to keep your immunity active?

Oh right, people are just going to LOVE that!

G'morning everyone in Internet land!

I remember when everyone was keeping their fingers crossed that this was going to go into remission when hot weather hit like the regular influenza. Surprise! It hasn't which makes it unique in the virus world.

 

[Perris]

get re-vaccinated every 4-5 months to keep your immunity active?

annual should mean every 12 months - still not ideal, but we're used to that sort of regime with flu jabs for example

 

[microchick]

annual should mean every 12 months - still not ideal, but we're used to that sort of regime with flu jabs for example

That is the way it's done here also, Perris, once a year for flu and pneumonia vaccines. One doc has told me that I should consider 2 flu shots over the flu seasons to give me better immunity later in the season.

Thinking about that now, does that mean that the flu vaccine effectiveness diminishes in a few months the way the antibodies for the Covid virus does? Something to consider.

 

[Bunnylady]

Thinking about that now, does that mean that the flu vaccine effectiveness diminishes in a few months the way the antibodies for the Covid virus does?

That is something I've heard before -that with flu shots, the period of greatest resistance is shortly after the shot is given, and that it dwindles with time.

I realize horses and people are different in many ways, but veterinarians have long been recommending that a horse's annual inoculations (which are mainly for diseases that are transmitted by a mosquito vector) be given just before the local mosquito season begins. Around here, we have mosquitoes virtually year-round, so they recommend at least twice-yearly vaccinations to keep the resistance high.

 

[ronott1]

That is the way it's done here also, Perris, once a year for flu and pneumonia vaccines. One doc has told me that I should consider 2 flu shots over the flu seasons to give me better immunity later in the season.

Thinking about that now, does that mean that the flu vaccine effectiveness diminishes in a few months the way the antibodies for the Covid virus does? Something to consider.

Yes!

That is why you get the flu vaccine in late August or early Sept. If the flu season runs late, some with immune issues should get another in January.

 

[getaclue]

My motherboard, and RAM just arrived. We will be dismantling this computer, and doing the upgrade. IF everything works right, I'll see you guys later.

 

[pennyJo1960]

Morning Old folks, yes really did it yesterday went and bought eggs from Amazon.
I get 2 flue shots 2 pneumonia shots in year I am auto immune. So they poke me more