The Old Folks Home

[vehve]

I would never leave a dog unsupervised with the chickens. That is just asking for trouble.

Depends on the dog. We have one that I would be comfortable leaving with them, one that I would be 99% comfortable leaving with them, and one that I would not be at all comfortable leaving with them.

The labs will bring a wounded duck with the softest possible grip, the duck in their mouth with it's head up wondering what is happening. They have been taught not to chase live birds since they were puppies. And they show absolutely zero interest in anything else except for the chicken's food bowl, and their droppings. The dachshund on the other hand, will lunge after the chickens at the slightest opportunity. She is a predator at heart.

But that is something everyone must decide on their own, what they are willing to risk.

 

[dsqard]

tnspursfan so glad Maddy made it out of surgery and is now recovering. It just pulls on your heart to see her head all wrapped up and her still groggy. Hopefully this will be the last one she ever has to go through. Continued prayers for a quick and painless as possible recovery for her.

 

[drumstick diva]

Poor Maddy, I think that is the only time I have seen her without a smile. She is a great kid, and hope she recovers super fast.

hugs and love

for Maddy. Hope she will come home soon.

 

[Wisher1000]

Quote:
First, and foremost, please understand that I can not justify giving advice on selective breeding. I am too new to it myself to pretend to know what to tell you. I offer my thinking and strategies as thought fodder. Feel free to challenge it or to adopt it. Just understand that it is a work in progress. The Silver Campines that I am working on need SO MUCH work that I have to consider the basics first. I will work on fast maturing and fast molting once I have a handle on the other stuff. If you are working with birds that already have a good top line and good breast, you are ahead of me.

Also understand that when I say "cull" I am talking about removing that bird from my breeding program. Most of the time, they go to the layer/sell flock, so I still get to keep an eye on what they do as they mature further. Again, with a few of these birds that there are in the US, I cannot afford to kill any that I could use if something happened to my choice breeders. I am constantly culling, especially for disqualifications. When I see it, it leaves the breeder barn. A wise old poultry breeder once said, "You will have in your flock what you tolerate." I try to keep this in mind, always.

If you don't have an SOP, get one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisher1000

Here is my philosophy. I used a strategy to develop this based on the judging point system according to SOP. I am a list person, and needed something to go by. I couldn't find one that made sense to me, so I developed my own. I read the first forty pages of the SOP (and continue to do so, over and over) and then looked at the point system to determine what is, or is supposed to be, given the most weight (in non-white birds) and I put them in order based on that. On MY list, I included what the SOP says is the ideal for the Campine in each area. I won't type all of that, you can find it in the SOP.

1. Health, vigor, and production are paramount.

2. Strive for ideal in a) shape, b) size, and c) color (in that order.)
Look at what SOP calls for in these areas (in this order)

SHAPE - in three groups that have similar point values
Back
Breast

Body and Fluff
Legs and Toes
Comb

Tail
Wings
Skull and Face

SIZE - (Campines should be 6lbs for cocks and 4lbs for hens. I strive for the ideal weight as my minimum. Being a few ounces over the ideal is no different than being a few ounces under. However, the larger bird is preferred in the show. Everyone, including the judges, likes larger birds, but I keep in mind that Campines are supposed to be medium sized, close feathered, large fowl.)


COLOR - I understand why most people advise to "build the barn before you paint it," but when you are looking at each part of the bird, you need to be considering color as well. I wouldn't keep a Campine bird with a correct back if it were not barred. I would keep the better colored breast over the same shaped breast with poorer coloring. The second section requires attention to color in fluff, legs, and comb, as well as the last one, face. Shape is the first consideration, but color is important, too.

_____________________________________________

This is a post I made in another SOP thread a while back. It is based on the judging system of points found in the SOP. I looked at the weight given different aspects of the bird and categorized them

This strategy has not been proven, but it is what I intend to use. Feel free to use it or ask questions. I hope this helps.

 

[Wisher1000]

Here is another post I made talking about how I go about culling...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisher1000

I "cull" for anything obvious as I see it. A chick can be culled at hatch if it is not thriving. Those are the only ones that I trust myself to cull permanently. I like to see them pop out of the egg picking at anything that looks like it may be food.

I start with all the chicks in the brooder until I can move them outside, I have two grow-out pens (A and B.) All chicks start in A which is for unsexed chicks and pullets. B is for known cockerels and "likely culls." As soon as I determine a chick is a male, or is a female with an undesirable quality (leg color, eye color, wrong comb, etc.) they get moved to B. The male and female culls join the layer flock as soon as they are big enough to fend for themselves. I move them four or five at a time so they will have their own group to hang with. Eventually, I have a pen of "fair pullets" and a pen with "fair cockerels."

My layer flock free ranges during the day and I will lose one or two every couple of months to various predators. I don't mind so much if it is the culls that are taken, plus, if I see something exceptional about one of them as they mature, and what I culled them for is not as bad as I thought, I can always move them back. That makes my lack of confidence in selection a bit more forgiving.

Also, if someone is looking for hens, POL pullets, or cockerels for the pot, I will sell from my layer flock, not as Campines, but as layers.

The serious culling, for top line, bottom line, width of body and head, stance, tail set, and such goes on until I select the best for the breeder pens for spring hatches. Then all the rest go to the layer flock to be chickens for a while. I still watch them to see if anything interesting develops as they mature.

Silver Campines are so hard to find that I have to keep a few more than others may settle on because they are so hard to replace. I have plenty this year (I set over 100 eggs last spring) and selection is easier, but for the past two years, I had minor losses that undermined my whole program because individual birds were so important. I have started over three times!

 

[vehve]

Wisher, without any experience with breeding, I'd say your program sound pretty good and well thought out.

How quickly have you guys noticed a decrease in egg production after a predator scare? Today we got 4 eggs, but I wouldn't expect stress to affect already developed eggs. Clearly the flock got properly shocked though, as there was some pretty unusual behavior to be seen. Three chickens laying in the same nestbox simultaneously, and our baby roo was camped out in the other box.

 

[Cynthia12]

Depends on the dog. We have one that I would be comfortable leaving with them, one that I would be 99% comfortable leaving with them, and one that I would not be at all comfortable leaving with them.

The labs will bring a wounded duck with the softest possible grip, the duck in their mouth with it's head up wondering what is happening. They have been taught not to chase live birds since they were puppies. And they show absolutely zero interest in anything else except for the chicken's food bowl, and their droppings. The dachshund on the other hand, will lunge after the chickens at the slightest opportunity. She is a predator at heart.

But that is something everyone must decide on their own, what they are willing to risk.

I'm with you here on depends on the dog. I have a Golden Retriever that is fine with the chickens. She has a place on one side of the yard when we aren't home, and many a time, I've looked out to see that a chicken has flown over to her side. She is just laying there watching her, or will lay out flat like she's thinking..what ever..get back to your own side of the fence.
My Dachshund is scared to death of them. There have been many a chicken that will chase him around before he is able to do his duty. He does not like the chickens..he wouldn't hurt them for nothing..my grandchildren on the other hand..go figure, he snaps. He does not like them near me. We have to put him in another room if small ones are coming over.

 

[Cynthia12]

It's sooo good to know that Maddie is out and recovering. That smile will come back. How sweet for her to sign .. I love you. Children, are just precious.

 

[vehve]

Quote: We've had similar experiences with dachshunds - until we moved here where there are kids coming over for a visit several times per day. It took a couple of weeks for the dogs to get used to small children, but now they're fine with them.

Our labs are the same way as your retriever. They do chase the chickens, sort of, but they're moving at a glacial speed and just vacuum up all the treats that the chickens are producing for them - I would not let our dogs lick my face. Yuck.

 

[Cynthia12]

We've had similar experiences with dachshunds - until we moved here where there are kids coming over for a visit several times per day. It took a couple of weeks for the dogs to get used to small children, but now they're fine with them.

Our labs are the same way as your retriever. They do chase the chickens, sort of, but they're moving at a glacial speed and just vacuum up all the treats that the chickens are producing for them - I would not let our dogs lick my face. Yuck.

Oh yes, we call that...chicken candy because the dogs eat it like candy.

We say to the dogs, stop eating that chicken candy. They don't pay attention.