The Old Folks Home

[vehve]

Feedipedia mentions trials with up to a 35% content of peas in the feed not being harmful to poultry. I'm nowhere near that high contents.

 

[sharron]

Of course, I'm a southern girl, but although I love collards, I won't bother with them if I don't have some cornbread to go with them. Now, it shouldn't be sweet, NO cornbread should contain sugar, but if you have a mess of collards, you also have to have cornbread and pepper sauce.

i agree, cornbread, no sugar, pepper sauce, hot.

 

[Arielle]

Quote:
Linda, did a bit of sleuthing. I should have read more carefully, lol, about the acetylcholine as the two supplements to support it were given in the same paragraph,doh, lol. . I'll write what that I think is most helpful. THis was from the section of Dr Daniel Amen's book called AMen CLinics Study on Active and Retired NFL Players . . .

"From 2009 to 2012, Amen CLinics performed the world's largest brain imaging and rehabilitation study on active and retired professional football players. Because of our work with SPECT we had a high suspicion that many players suffered with the effects of chronic traumatic brain injury, and it seemed a the time that the NFL was dragging its feed on understanding and getting the players help.

The results of our study were very clear: A very high percentage of our 135 players had evidence of traumatic brain injury patterns on their scans and they showed the evidence of it in their lives with a high incidence of depression, dementia, obesity and ADD-like symptoms. In fact, 81% of our players complained of attention problems and showed concentration problems on the psychological testing we performed.

THe good news come from t he second pa rt of the study: after we saw the high level of damage in players, we wondered if their brains could be rehabilitated. I have already shared with you many stories where that, in fact, occurred. We were hopeful and decided to sue lifestyle interventions and sophisticated supplements as our treatments of choice. We taught players how to care for their brains: avoid anything that hurts it and engage in regular brain-healthy habits. In addition we put them all on NeuroVite+, our high quality multiple vitamins, high dose fish oil[] and a brain boosting supplement I designed called Brain and Memory Power Boost that contains 7 nutrients to support brain function: gingko and vinpocetine for blood flow; Huperazine A and acetyl-L-carnitine to enhance the nerotransmitter acetylcholine; N-acetylcysteine and alpha lipoic acid, potent antioxidants; and phosphatidylserine to help nerve cell membranes and lower stress hormones. THis combination was of significant benefit to 80% of our players, including improvements in memory, mood, attention, motivation and sleep. In addition, we saw that the lifestyle changes and these supplements improved blood flow to their brains.

We were so encouraged by the results that we tested this combination of supplements on two separate groups of reasonably healthy people in double-blind placebo controlled studies ( the highest level of scientific evidence) and saw even greater benefits in mood, executive function, memory, reasoning, information processing speed and accuracy. We even saw reduced hostility.

If you have been bad to your brain, have hope. THere is high potential for recovery on a brain -smart program. "

THe good thing is that all these supplements are also available individually.

I have been trying a specific supplement for my son that is OTC and have seen a dramatic effect. I know when he has been forgetting his supplements too and can then help him get back on track. SO ya, I have faith that this man knows what he is talking about.

In general he recommends regular exercise, like walking briskly for about an hour several times a week; eating healthy foods and dumping the high fat, high carb crap; organic as much as possible; 8 hours of sleep, and USE THAT BRAIN. Learn something new, dance, play pingpong!

 

[vehve]

@ozexpat Yeah, I'll have to do that for the ones I don't find it listed for anywhere. Have you seen any recommendations on max fat content in poultry feed? I remember reading somewhere something about capping it at 10%, but I haven't found a recommended level yet.

 

[tntchix]

I didn't know that about peas. What if you sprout the legumes, will they still contain toxins? I was going to grow a bunch of beans and feed the seeds to our chickens, pole beans are easy to grow and produce more beans than we ever use, or want to process.

curious here too since I am sprouting seeds now.

 

[Amberjem]

I never had collards until I tried them at Cracker Barrel restaurant. I've always loved swiss chard. Just recently tried kale and it's super good for you. The wife thought I was weird at Cracker Barrel when I ordered fried chicken livers, seasoned pinto beans, and collard greens, were from the north and people around here usually don't eat those. Eating the same things all the time is boring. I thought they were pretty good.

yumm cracker barrel

 

[Arielle]

Feedipedia mentions trials with up to a 35% content of peas in the feed not being harmful to poultry. I'm nowhere near that high contents.

Thanks Felix.

You made me dig out my feeds book . . . and look up the poultry stuff. trying to find if fat% is important and if so what is specified.

 

[ozexpat]

Article i have red on fat in poultry feed talks of adding fats up to 6% but not what the limits are. Total energy varies very little in my feed ingredients so i am not really concerned with fats


Here is my basic spreadsheed with the top half being the nutritional values



feel free to download it and modify to suit you costs and feed ingredients

With each feed I adjust the targets, then add and subtract ingredients to meet targets at lowest cost, knowing the limitations of my ingredients in ruminants, swine and poultry.

php/kg Protein % G/Kg Lyseine Calcium Phosph Sodium
Copra 13.75 20 4.7 1.2 5.8 0.6
Rice Bran 14 12.5 5.5 0.7 13.8 0.2
Soy Meal 35.5 50 30.5 3.9 6.9 0.1
Fish Meal 49 70 52.5 43.4 27.9 11.3
Corn Meal 13.5 12 5.4 4.8 3.4 0.8
Oyster Shell 0 0 380 0 0
Salt 0 0 0 0 380
kg Protein % G/Kg Lyseine Calcium Phosph Sodium cost
Copra 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Rice Bran 70 875 385 49 966 14 980
Soy Meal 5 250 152.5 19.5 34.5 0.5 177.5
Fish Meal 6 420 315 260.4 167.4 67.8 294
Corn Meal 50 600 270 240 170 40 675
Oyster Shell 3 0 0 1140 0 0 0
Salt 0.25 0 0 0 0 95 0
134.25 2145 1122.5 1708.9 1337.9 217.3 2126.5
total 16.0 8.4 12.7 10.0 1.62 PHP 792
target 16.0 7.8 11.0 8.0 1.5

 

[Arielle]

Felix, here are my findings according to thisone source Animal Feeding and Nutrition by Marshall H Jurgens, 5th edition

"It can be argued that it is impossible to set an energy requirement in terms of kilocalories per kilogram of diet because birds adjust their feed intake to acheive the necessary daily ration of energy. On the other hand, the protein requirements is one of the most important criteria upon withch any feed formula is based, and if it is to be specifiied, the dietary energy level must be specified because it is essential to maintain the proper ratio of protein to energy in poutlry diets. SOme variability in optimal protein : energy ratios must be recognized. Some combinations of fats and carbohydrates have a protein-sparing effect. Also protein: energy ratios maybe altered deliverately inorder to influence fat deposition. When po rtein levels are low in realation to energy and with Ad libitum feeding, fat deposition is markdedly increased; with hight protein levels, less fat is deposited. Increasing the protein level above that required for maximum growth rate reduces fat deposition still further.
It is evident that the protein requirement can be defined accrately only in realtion to energy concentration, degree of fat depostion and a limited range of nutrient combinations using those purified and practical feedstuffs that have been subjected to experimental study. For practical purposes in farm operations and feed manufacturing, sufficient work has ben done with growing chicks to define , with reasonable accuracy,the minimum protein requirements for maximum grwoth rate in relation to energy level. Similar estimates can be made fromt more limited data for laying hens and growing turkeys.

The physiological relationship between levels of energy and protein extends to the levels of essential amino acids. . . . . ."

IT continues with the importance of meeting the amino acid requirements for broilers, replacement pullets, layers, etc. and lists several tables for percent protein and % amino acid.

For Egg-type and meat type chickens ( NOT Broilers) Amino acid level for 0-6 week 18%, 6-14 wks 15%, 14-20 wks 12% protein.
For layers 15% with daily intake of 16,500 mg. ( Realize more listings for aa are in mg too)

So nothing really specific for fat content. " Vegetable and animal fats-- used extensively as energy sources; fats also resduce feed dusinesss, incrase palatability and improve texture and appearance of the feed"

In one broiler feed, stabilized fat IFN 4-00-409 was used at 5.00% of the mix for 0-3 weeks, the 3.5% 3-9 weeks for broilers; for 3200 kcal/kg metabolizable energy. A replacement pullet ration, as a mash, had some fishmeal and meat and bone meal but no other added fa, the total of those was 5%; So mostly a protein source and less of a fat source. 3000 kcal/kg metabolizable energy in the final mash. % protein varied by age of chick. THis is for commercial layers as chicks.

Does any of this help?????

 

[Cynthia12]

I tried to go to bed but realized tomorrow is house cleaning day... Every two weeks a woman comes in and cleans house... So we have to clean house before she comes in... Very very nice lasy... has a son my sons age... who is on a mission by the way.

Anyway I am living with my Grandma who is 98. Mom lives about five minutes away. The two are like oil and vinegar... so its best they live in separate houses. I wound up moving in with grandma eight years ago in order to work here in San Diego.

My house is sixty miles from where I am staying right now. By my staying with grandma she can stay at her own home and live the life she needs to live on mostly her terms. By me staying with her and listening to the baby monitor all night long I can be assured if she needs someone in the middle of the night someone will be here. Also my staying here I can take mom to the store when she needs taxi service.

And Yep without the baby monitor I did NOT hear Grandma banging on the wall trying to wake some one up when she fell and broke her hip four years ago. I will never forgive myself for that. Up until then I was taking two or three days a week for myself and going home tending my birds and horse... I can feed everyone if I stick to a three day schedual... but that was too expensive for gas money. So I worked it out that my neighbor would feed my horse every three to four days... and I would go up once a week to tend the birds and goats.

Once the birds and goats were gone I stopped going up there...

But tomorrow I get propane and that means hot water.... I am looking forward to taking a shower in my barrier free shower and having room to move around without fear of falling. And Yes No shower tomorrow but it will be hot the next time I go up for a day of RESPITE and RECHARGE...

I am looking forward to denuding the house of everything and cleaning All the floors All the counters All the windows and maybe giving my horse a skritch with a curry and throw in her amazing grazer filled with Alfafla cubes... Next time not tomorrow.

deb

Wow..or should I say..whew! Your grandmother is so lucky to have you there! And your mom. You will be busy cleaning all right if you haven't been there for a while. Your horse is going be so happy to see you! Get a photo of her/him...would ya?