The Old Folks Home

[dsqard]

Pretty sad when most of the issues probably could have been handled "organically" had they had an inkling on how to raise poultry correctly. How can anyone imagine that not changing litter or cleaning up for six months would not lead to disease somehow? I remember once when a friend visited our house in Utah and was surprised that my chicken coops didn't smell. I told him there is only one reason chicken coops smell and that is the fault of the owner. I understand that raising thousands of birds together is going to smell only because you can't get rid of the feces fast enough but I thought that was the point of small organic farming. Keep the flocks small enough to manage organically. Just goes to show you that organic doesn't necessarily mean smart or humane

 

[getaclue]

Morning!


Thought you might find this an interesting read to go along with your morning cuppa

Inexperience leads to disaster in small specialty poultry flock

Disease and high mortality in a small Midwestern poultry operation of the US demonstrate the consequences of inexperience coupled with the treatment restraints of organic farming, Patricia Wakenell, DVM, PhD, Purdue University, reported at the 2016 Western Poultry Disease Conference.[1]
In her presentation, “Disaster Flocks: When good intentions go bad,” Wakenell reported on a 5,000-bird flock with mortality that at one point reached 50% to 60%. No treatment had been initiated because the farm was organic.
Contacted for help, the university’s Poultry Diagnostic Service found unvaccinated birds. Only a half-wall separated broilers from layers. Although broilers were separated into pens by age, they could jump from one pen to another. Litter was never changed and some had been present for at least 6 months. New hatchlings were in a pen previously occupied by turkeys. Ventilation was adequate, but heat for young broilers was not, Wakenell said.
There were numerous dead broilers and those that were sick had snicking, lameness, diarrhea, stunting, pendulous crops, ataxia, depression and feather loss. Diagnostics revealed reovirus tenosynovitis, infectious bursal disease, infectious bronchitis, Marek’s disease and salmonellosis. The owner refused to depopulate but cleaned out litter from vacated pens and sourced birds vaccinated against Marek’s disease. A second submission for diagnosis, however, turned up aspergillosis, she said.
About 1 month after the university’s initial visit, mortality was occurring in layers. Infectious laryngotracheitis and mycoplasma were diagnosed. The owner resisted total depopulation of the layer flock but depopulated birds on one side of the building.
There has been some improvement, with broiler mortality approaching 40%. However, “the resistance to depopulation, cleaning, disinfection and single-age broiler restocking has made it difficult to find ways to improve the health of the birds,” Wakenell said.
“Small specialty poultry flocks are exploding in popularity, driven by public desire to have local fresh eggs and meat. Unfortunately, many of the farmers are new to poultry farming and do not have training in the basics of biosecurity and disease containment. In addition, public demands for organic products limit the types of intervention that can be used when disease issues do occur on the farms,” she said.




[1] Wakenell P, et al. Diaster Flocks: When good intentions go bad. Proceedings of the 65th Western Poultry Disease Conference, 2016, Vancouver, BC, Canada.

categories: Infectious Diseases Media Watch
tags: disaster flocks, organic farming, poultry flocks, Western Poultry Disease Conference

Here is the response I posted on my page: This article, the way it is written, is very misleading, and does more damage than good. 1. 5,000 birds is NOT a small flock. While it's not the number of birds found on the commercial industrialized poultry farms, it's still not a small flock. 2. Mortality rates of 50 - 60% are NOT uncommon, depending on the disease affecting the flock. 3. It says that no treatment had been initiated because the farm was organic, however, there are several poultry diseases that there are no real treatment options available. 3. They mention finding unvaccinated birds, and make it sound like that is part of the problem, however, what they fail to mention is that many current vaccines are "leaky" vaccines, and very ineffective. 4. From the conditions described, the major factors seem to be lack proper habitat, along with enough supplies, and manpower for maintaining sanitary conditions. 5. While they decry inexperience as a huge problem, and it can be, let's not forget that the H5 avian flu outbreaks began in experienced commercial industrialized farms. 6. While the article mentions resistance to total depopulation, it doesn't mention whether they are trying to keep some of the survivors in an effort to breed for resistance. 7. They mention the demand for organic products limiting the types of intervention that can be used, however, even though limited, in many states there are types of intervention that can be used in regards to diseased flocks. This article comes across as pro-commercial poultry keeping, anti-backyard flock keeping, and pro-goverment control over all poultry keeping, which is nonsense.

 

[perchie.girl]

Quote:
Here is the response I posted on my page: This article, the way it is written, is very misleading, and does more damage than good. 1. 5,000 birds is NOT a small flock. While it's not the number of birds found on the commercial industrialized poultry farms, it's still not a small flock. 2. Mortality rates of 50 - 60% are NOT uncommon, depending on the disease affecting the flock. 3. It says that no treatment had been initiated because the farm was organic, however, there are several poultry diseases that there are no real treatment options available. 3. They mention finding unvaccinated birds, and make it sound like that is part of the problem, however, what they fail to mention is that many current vaccines are "leaky" vaccines, and very ineffective. 4. From the conditions described, the major factors seem to be lack proper habitat, along with enough supplies, and manpower for maintaining sanitary conditions. 5. While they decry inexperience as a huge problem, and it can be, let's not forget that the H5 avian flu outbreaks began in experienced commercial industrialized farms. 6. While the article mentions resistance to total depopulation, it doesn't mention whether they are trying to keep some of the survivors in an effort to breed for resistance. 7. They mention the demand for organic products limiting the types of intervention that can be used, however, even though limited, in many states there are types of intervention that can be used in regards to diseased flocks. This article comes across as pro-commercial poultry keeping, anti-backyard flock keeping, and pro-goverment control over all poultry keeping, which is nonsense.
You are absolutely right about the article as being misleading.... an example of spin....

deb

 

[Beer can]

I only clean my coop every few yrs just cause I want the fertilizer. Deep litter done right stays dry, smell free, and the only time I see poop is in the winter under their roosts when it's froze, thawed mixes right in and disappears quick like and I do no mixing or stirring, let them do the work.
Think I'll clean it all out this time and fill 55gal plastic barrels, soak it and let it work before adding to garden. Stuff seems to take forever to take on water, almost like peat moss.
Fill the coop back up with a couple feet deep of tree leaves, they'll have them shredded to a couple inches in a week, have plenty of sawdust to add also.

 

[Beer can]

Was a rough night last night, didn't get done till 3am and then up at 7... Between boiling all kraut equipment and shredding over fifty lbs of cabbage, lost count. FIL said 4oz salt to every ten lbs cabbage and my digital scale only goes to eleven so I weighed out five at a time. Filled a 10gal crock 3/4 full packed. Bout all it could handle anyway with the big stone weight and liquid coming to the top. And a couple big garbage bags full of outer leaves for the chickens :-D

 

[Alaskan]

Pretty sad when most of the issues probably could have been handled "organically" had they had an inkling on how to raise poultry correctly.  How can anyone imagine that not changing litter or cleaning up for six months would not lead to disease somehow?  I remember once when a friend visited our house in Utah and was surprised that my chicken coops didn't smell.  I told him there is only one reason chicken coops smell and that is the fault of the owner.  I understand that raising thousands of birds together is going to smell only because you can't get rid of the feces fast enough but I thought that was the point of small organic farming.  Keep the flocks small enough to manage organically.  Just goes to show you that organic doesn't necessarily mean smart or humane

I agree that there was obvious mismanagement....

But.. I do think that 6 months between coop clean out might be perfectly fine, even great, if he is practicing deep litter that is actively composting. When done correctly, the deep littler method is excellent, and produces no stench. I think you could manage to do deep litter on a large scale.

I go 6 months between cleaning my coop, and I do NOT practice deep litter... I have poop shelves that get most of the poop, and I toss fresh saw dust on the floor when needed, and mix it up.

If my coops smell... I know they need to be cleaned.. But usually just the poop shelves. My management style... Not sure if you could do it karge scale.. But maybe if you replace the poop shelves with droppings pits.

Not sure.

My point... No way to know if his poop/cleaning system was bad... Except that he didn't do a complete clean between batches or species ...and THAT is always bad.

Also, the fact that once there was a clear problem...he really should have been walking through the buildings removing all iffy looking birds... Every day. Putting them in a quarantine location would have been fine..if he wanted to see if they could recover would have been OK. But having so many clearly sick birds just sit there with the healthy ones!!! Ack! What was he thinking?!?!?!????

 

[Alaskan]

I only clean my coop every few yrs just cause I want the fertilizer. Deep litter done right stays dry, smell free, and the only time I see poop is in the winter under their roosts when it's froze, thawed mixes right in and disappears quick like and I do no mixing or stirring, let them do the work.
Think I'll clean it all out this time and fill 55gal plastic barrels, soak it and let it work before adding to garden. Stuff seems to take forever to take on water, almost like peat moss.
Fill the coop back up with a couple feet deep of tree leaves, they'll have them shredded to a couple inches in a week, have plenty of sawdust to add also.

I agree... A clean coop doesn't always equal perpetually cleaned out.

Who can clean it out anyway... Once temps are zero and below???

 

[chickadoodles]

Hey everyone.
Ron your bread looks great!

Scg your pillow is very pretty.

Bunnylady and everyone in the path of hurricane Matthew I hope you all are safe and warm.

Deb I hope your having a blast on your vacation.

Dh and I went to the river for 9 days. We had to come back a couple days for dr. appts. but we had a nice time fishing and walking through the woods.
We had some local gators that kept sticking around our hooks waiting to get our fish! hahhaa

 

[superchemicalgirl]

But.. I do think that 6 months between coop clean out might be perfectly fine, even great, if he is practicing deep litter that is actively composting. When done correctly, the deep littler method is excellent, and produces no stench. I think you could manage to do deep litter on a large scale.

Who can clean it out anyway... Once temps are zero and below???

I was about to bring up the point that it is almost impossible to do a coop clean out in winter here. I wait, wait, wait in the fall until just before we freeze for good, then do a 100% clean out. As the frozen poo-sickles accumulate during the winter and Poo Mountain under the roosts begins to form, I do my best to chisel it down. However, it's like cement in sub-zero temperatures and just not worth the effort to "skin" the poo to try to whittle it down. And so it accumulates. I'd like to think if Shel Silverstein were still alive he'd make a poem kinda like Sarah Cynthia Sylvia Stout about Poo Mountain.

As soon as it thaws in spring the odor is... quickly unpleasant. I usually attempt to clean it out too early and it's still frozen solid in some parts. The first year I broke the metal bar cage that I had in the coop - it was frozen to the bottom and I pulled and pulled and warped it. Last year I broke my (metal) shovel trying to chisel the shavings out. I vow to be more cautious this year, but caution is usually thrown to the wind when spring fever hits.

So while a nice, clean coop is ideal, around here it's almost impossible, at least during winter.

 

[perchie.girl]

Ok which deb is on vacation because its not me???

deb