The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[cbnovick]

Cindy, I don't think it is a secret that the Ringlets do have hatchability issues, in some people's experience, with the birds they have. Trying to be careful here and say it with precision and caution, but yes.

Some folks point toward fertility, but most are pointing to outright lack of hatching vigor. Getting them to come out of the shells after after 18 days. There are many reports that upright hatching helped them with a better hatch rate. This is all stories we hear from posts here. We've no way of knowing how accurate these reports are or how wide spread the situation really is.

But with this much smoke, there's likely some fire. I can only share our experience.

Under the exact same incubating conditions, our other line of Barred Rocks will out hatch the Ringlets three to one. Again, just our experience but it validates the concerns, at least in my mind.

I share my thoughts on this later, as I've been reflecting on it for almost a year.

ringlet hatching vigor...It's interesting to say the least...'mysterious' even...at this point.

& Fred---make sure it's "homily" and not "hominy" you pay attention to....couldn't help myself

 

[cbnovick]

Good morning yall (just catching up before church so I don't have too much time)....but

On my Columbians (Fred, if you know of a Colonial Rock strain please lemme know, LOL, you must need a coffee!!),

Fertility - NO ISSUES. Over the past 3 hatching seasons I can say that I've tossed 1% or less due to fertility. Keep in mind that I've been using almost exclusively an older cockerel or a 1 yr old cock bird, so I have had "youth" on my side. This year was the first year that I used more than 1 male and I still had no issues

Hatching rate - thus far has always been good. First 2 seasons I was worried about getting large numbers on the ground so I did not keep very good records, but this season I hatched 94% of every egg I put into the incubator and that made it to day 18. Very rarely did an egg not hatch. Broody hatches this year have been 100%. Have had 4 girls sit a total of 6 times and they hatched every single egg each time (unfortunately these hatches were later than I like)

Feather rate - since I have also had GS and Stukel rocks, I have a point of comparison here and I'd say mine are a bit faster feathering than the barreds, but not quite as fast as the solid colored birds. My males seem to feather more slowly than the females, especially along the hackle/back area.

Maturity - WOW, not this is a "can o' worms"....gonna address this 2 ways, sexual and size. On my Females, they seem to reach POL around 32 weeks (+/- 7 months), a lot slower than hatchery birds. As far as size, I can tell my keepers from my culls around the time they lay their first egg, but they do continue to fill out until they are around 15 months old. On my Males, the seem to begin feeling their oats around 4-5 months and I have to keep the young males penned away from the young females so that the females are not constantly harassed. In similar fashion to my females, I can normally pick the "cull" males by around 7 months (those that are lagging behind, poor color, high tails, etc). However it is very hard to select from amongst my potential keepers until they are over a year old and they seem to continue filling out until they reach about 18 months.

Vigor - keeping in mind that my original trio came from Canada to "the deep south", and my first year I experienced some loss of chicks/young birds due to the heat and likely due to the strain adjusting to such a climate change. Plus, it was one of the hottest summers ever on record here. The second year, I lost a couple, but very few. This year, NO issues at all. Now, one thing that I have found is that the early I hatch chicks, the fewer issues I have come summer AND the birds are also larger. My philosophy is that the cold causes them to eat like little pigs and they grow quickly. By the time the worst of the summer heat arrives, they are 6+ months old and better prepared for it. Its very hard to put weight on a bird in the summer time. Last season I hatch at the end of December. This next year I am going to try hatching around Thanksgiving, just to see if there is any noticeable differences. A friend in SC recommended that I hatch early than Dec, so I'm gonna give it a try

Off to church....will be back after 12

Great post, Scott....
I definitely prefer hatching in cooler months since I'm in AZ...didn't have that luxury with the Buff Rocks...however, they have done well...unless the 3 that appear to be 'late bloomers' are due to heat...however, I do think these were smaller from the get go if memory serves me correctly...at any rate the Buffs are thriving despite our heat due to measures I am taking to keep them cool enough...ie misting system and tons of shade with sanded coop/run. I am feeding them tons more of mealworms and spinach with free grazing them too.

 

[cbnovick]

Great post, Scott....
I definitely prefer hatching in cooler months since I'm in AZ...didn't have that luxury with the Buff Rocks...however, they have done well...unless the 3 that appear to be 'late bloomers' are due to heat...however, I do think these were smaller from the get go if memory serves me correctly...at any rate the Buffs are thriving despite our heat due to measures I am taking to keep them cool enough...ie misting system and tons of shade with sanded coop/run. I am feeding them tons more of mealworms and spinach with free grazing them too.

I must add I am worming them too every 2 weeks with Safeguard goat wormer in water for 3 days...when they hit 12 weeks I will give them the broader spectrum Valbazen orally.

 

[weavers rocks]

How much do they sell for shipped to VA?

24 dollars a doz. not sure what the shipping will cost .where you at in VA

 

[catdaddyfro]

Cool thread Fred(poet didn't ya'll know it)

I will join in on it as get some pics took up of my Rocks(WRs,BRs, and Col.Rs) too to also show off on here. I have some comparable but not nearly as nice as most posted so far. I got to get my set up more attention to detail friendly, right now it is more like a "mill" I just have a hard time picking which to start out working with first. LOL

Some say I got too many I say "I got them while the gettin' was good"

 

[cbnovick]

Hey Jeff,

So glad you've joined in.

I think it was Janis Joplin that sang "Get It While You Can"....totally understand this!!

Hilarious cartoon too

Headed out to the pancake house...Fred and Scott are at church {praying for us hopefully}

Catch ya later on...peace out for now

 

[Fred's Hens]

Well, a good number of cups of coffee later, and a good Sunday morning service, (if a wee bit long today) and I allowing my granddaughter to do the chicken chores so I can put my feet up and think about these Rocks and hatching vigor.

I cannot and do not try to explain everyone's situation and make broad, universal statements about the Ringlets, but I can speak our birds. The hatching vigor is very woeful. There is no tap dancing around it. We're considering things we can do differently this winter breeding season, but we tried everything in the incubator/hatchers to no avail. We're convince that yes, we need to do all the right things in hatching, but compared to our other BR line? Well, to be honest, there is no comparison.

With that line you just hatch them. At 20 days through the 21st day, they flat out jump out of the shell. Perhaps it is this stark contrast that made the issue stand out in stark relief.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Someone can correct me if I don't have this precisely correct, but I have a remembrance of the New Hampshire folks having gotten themselves painted into a corner a decade or two back. Vigor and hatch rates were woeful. Enter? The German New Hampshire and zap zing, the breed has gone nuts. Size, quick feathering, early maturity, quick to lay, and awesome size and this criss/crossed NH are storming the shows, the dual purpose homestead world and taking everything by storm.

Do I have thoughts about this? yes I do.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

Someone can correct me if I don't have this precisely correct, but I have a remembrance of the New Hampshire folks having gotten themselves painted into a corner a decade or two back. Vigor and hatch rates were woeful. Enter? The German New Hampshire and zap zing, the breed has gone nuts. Size, quick feathering, early maturity, quick to lay, and awesome size and this criss/crossed NH are storming the shows, the dual purpose homestead world and taking everything by storm.

Do I have thoughts about this? yes I do.

Fred,

Using beagles as an example (I know you can relate) if we breed a line too tightly we get; smaller litters, decreased survivability, undershot jaws, shortened noses, etc I think the same can happen to poultry over time; i.e. the Ringlet Line and what is being seen is hatchability issues. If I were raising the Barreds again, I would try crossing, for example call it EX1, a Stukel line male to a Ringlet female and call it EX2, vice versa, keeping very close tabs on the offspring for future matings. (I use EX for "experiment".) I would then breed EX1 offspring to EX2 both ways....see if fertility, hatchability and vigor don't improve.

If I recall from listening to a lot of the rock breeders who have been around a long while, most of the GOOD lines of BRs can be traced back to Ringlet origins.....so the genetics are there in most of these lines, you just have to push them out. I know of several lines that could be tried in lieu of Stukel. Jamie Duckworth has a GREAT line, Kraig Shaffer has a great line, Tom Wheeler has a great line (not certain if he still has them), if you can find original Paul Hardy birds those are incredible, etc, etc. I don't think finding a really good line to cross to would be very difficult

 

[Fred's Hens]

Scott, you listed all the top lines. There are lines out of the NorthEast in Mass. and Maine as well.

The issue for many people is the whole idea of an outcross. Since it is best to teach folks the principles of line breeding and the holding to one line in fidelity, the idea of outcrossing gives many people the heeby jeebies.

As long as your line has vigor and/or you can bring in a bird from your line that sparks vigor, you've not much need to be concerned. But when hatch rates fall to a dismal 10-20% of eggs set, then yes. Houston, we've got a problem.