The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[Fred's Hens]

The Rock fancier/lovers thread. ​

There is just something about a Plymouth Rock. As many of you folks may already know, I am passionate about Rocks. I just cannot imagine this farmstead without them. My experience is limited to White Rocks and Barred Rocks, but breeders of Rocks, all varieties are welcome to share in this social and educational thread. Breeding top quality Plymouth Rocks is challenging and rewarding, if you really love the breed. This thread should be a place where fellow Rock breeders can meet and share their stories and photos of these special birds and make a few friends along the way.

Welcome fellow Rock heads.

 

[Fred's Hens]

I don't have to read about that time, I lived that era.

We grew out 200 such Leghorns every summer. I was in charge of their keeping, feeding and coop cleaning from the age of 8 years on. I can assure you that we did indeed process Leghorn K's at 16-18 weeks and they made dandy eating. I had a catching hook, a sharp hatchet, and a couple of pails and that was my job, at the stump, on cleaning day.

The reality is? YES. The Leghorn was different then. Simply a more stout bird than today's hatchery and commercial egg laying versions that dominate folk's view of the breed. Finding good, meaty Leghorns is more challenging today, but they ARE out there, if you know where to look and who to ask.

One my first group, circa 1959 or so.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Since we know we have folks who read here, lurkers Bob Blosl calls them, and perhaps you're wondering if utility is a major focus of any of us. It may appear that the SOP stands in the way of utility, vigor or good temperament. This takes some time to think about. Let's leave aside showing at this point. Let's just leave taking birds to Poultry judging shows on side so we can focus on the history of the Plymouth Rock, it's utility and why the bird(s) were bred in the first place.

The first Rock was the Barred Rock, of course. Those original breeders who mixed this bird from Cochin, Dominique, Black Java and perhaps other birds wanted a true dual purpose bird. In today's world, 90% of all chickens in the world are not dual purpose. We have in the modern age, the CX type, quick maturing broiler. On the other hand, we see millions and millions of industrial egg layers, both in white and or brown egg varieties, depending on the cultural preference. 90% of all chickens alive are not any breed, but specialized mixes-hybrids meeting the task of industrial/commercial agricultural goals in marketing meat and eggs for a hungry world while remaining economical for the producers, retailers and consumers.

The Rock was widely popular in more rural days of America. This American breed was also popular around the world and they were crated up and shipped almost around the globe.

The Rock had a stout reputation for being a solid layer, even laying better in winter than other breed offerings. It had to produce a decent meat carcass. It would often be broody, but not overly so. Frontier folks needed the hens to sit, but not so much as to hinder egg laying. The Rock needed to be a busy bird, seeking out much of its own food during times of availability. The SOP reflected these traits. This is something often misunderstood.

Why does the Rock have the deep body? Why does the SOP describe a wide head? A wide tented tail? Why does the SOP describe a wide set leg balance as being preferred? Was all this for shows? No.

The wide tail tent, as opposed to a pinched tail set often seen on non-SOP posers simply shows a body type of a good layer. Pinched tails was to the SOP writers as early as 1905 or 1911 a sign of a bird that would have difficulty in passing good sized eggs. From the earliest days, the SOP shows a Rock with a nice, gravy bowl shape, with nice rounded front line. Is this vanity? No. The breast meat must be supported with structure.

Much more later, but this is why we breed the Rock faithfully.

The SOP is a written and pictorial intent of the originators of the breed. Those men and women had a true vision for a bird they were creating during the post War Between the States era. They weren't making a Leghorn. They knew what those were. They weren't making a Dorking or a Sussex, as they knew those as well. They wanted a bird right for the new world.

 

[Fred's Hens]

No bone in the shanks means no bone anywhere else, including skulls. With males standing together, and no females to confuse, look down at the forest of legs. Who's got skinny legs? He gone.

 

[Fred's Hens]

You'll likely hear old timers say things like, "need to pull that tail up" or "need to put a tail on those" or other expressions. What are they saying? Does it just happen? No.

Where is the correction going to come from? Mid air? No. You have to take compensatory action. Here's where "go small" comes into play as well. Let's say I had a really nice pullet who had great features I want/need, but dang it, she's rainy day.

Let's use this pullet, by way of example. She's an F1 that didn't make the breeding pen, but she'll lay eggs in the barn for the table.



Let's say she's all I had, or she's was so fantastic in every other way? (the bird above isn't fantastic in every other way, she's just being the model here) What could you do?

Well, for starters, I be looking for a K with a back line that was a bit exaggerated, like this fellow's perhaps.



I'd single mate them and give them a short run. Once I had 16-20 eggs or so in the incubator from this mating, I'd move on. I wouldn't make it my life's work. Go small means a quick, small run at the issue. Keep tight records. Going small makes record keeping easier.

If I have other birds to focus on? I'd be much better off just getting on with "going down the middle". Focus on the good birds and just go down the middle. My only little voice here is just to say, don't get all fixated with compensatory breeding to the neglect of your solid birds we should be focusing on. But there are some occasions where compensatory breeding is just the right thing to try. Hope that is simple enough to be helpful.

 

[Beekissed]

I know it's no loss to y'all if we don't post here and it's probably even a big relief, but this egghead, pedantic crap is just what turns people off of even going into breeding seriously...the people with whom you have to deal. If the sticking point is merely the words you use, you've relegated "serious" to blow hard folks who think using the correct terminology makes them seem more informed and dedicated to the craft. Oh, please! Life is too, too short to split hairs and take one's self so seriously, let alone dump that OCD on other folks too.

Let me spell it out for you...this is a chicken forum. It's chickens. Not world hunger, war, cancer research or even rocket science...it's an animal that is used for food, primarily, and for your hobby as a secondary use. Hobbies, by pure definition, are not a serious thing but a side pursuit for folks with too much time and money on their hands. If you want to pretend that your hobby is of great importance and requires "correct" words or it will offend you, then you may want to take a step back and look at the world around you. There are many, many offensive things in this world...many.... but the word rooster is just not one of them. Only here, where folks are engaged in a bird hobby.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Partners are a god-send when catastrophic events hit. Heaven forbid something should happen, but it is a relief to know that you can rebound much quicker. As soon as I can, I like to have stuff spread among a partner or two. Sort of like hiding the diamonds under more than one rock I suppose.

Had a horrible spring, last year for catastrophic incidences. Still doesn't feel good to remember them. Not the brightest penny in the pond, but I do learn quick. Spread your bloodlines among a few folks. Be a giver, not a hoarder. It can come back to you if you give it away. A wise man taught me that once, God rest his soul.

 

[emenheiser]

I didn't start breeding poultry to be told I can't do something. I do expect to hear negative comments, without them how can I better my birds. Do I think they are perfect...absolutely not, compared to the parent stock I feel they are better. And I take that as an achievement even if it is myself celebrating. What I'm looking for is advise to better them. Not to be told to throw out 2 varieties that I have already put time and effort into. I see good in all those birds. I was hoping others would note good things as well. Otherwise it tells me they are not worth messing with and I should give up.

Caleb, interesting to hear your livestock background. I sensed that you had some stock sense in your first post and therefore didn't BS you in my reply. One of the great things about chickens in comparison to cattle or sheep is that you can make a huge amount of progress in a short amount of time. It also means that everyone else can, and so if you are at all interested in competition, it means that the little details are critically important. And as easy as it is to make quick progress, it's even easier to screw up and go the wrong direction.

It feels good to look at a few traits and get a sense of accomplishment because a young bird is better than its parents, but in the big picture, that bird is really only an improvement if there were no backward steps in any other traits. And that very seldom happens. So many of the important traits in any breeding venture are antagonistic, and it takes a lot of experience to learn to manage that. In cattle breeding, an individual animal, its pedigree, etc. are so much more important. In poultry, you quickly realize that you are managing populations more so than individuals. You'll figure out how and why your 'best" young birds don't necessarily come from the "best" parents, and how all of the traits you are managing are like alternating pistons....they all have to be right for the engine to hum. It's too narrow in focus to look at linear progress in a few traits, because it won't be but a few years until you realize the linear decline in other traits that matter.

The more breeds and varieties you try to work with, the less likely you are to be able to hatch and raise the numbers you need to be able to understand all of the intricacies. You already need to hatch more than "normal" because the varieties you described are a combination of several strains. It's challenging enough to fully see what is happening in your line when you start with one variety from one source. Scott's advice to concentrate on the least common variety is wise, but even as established as whites and barreds are, you'll quickly realize that "coasting" by only hatching a few doesn't work out very long. Particularly if you lack the background to wrap around everything you need to consider. Find a good mentor who will spend time looking through your birds with you in person, because the answers you really need aren't available through an internet forum.

 

[Fred's Hens]

When folks get a small start of a breeding trio or quad, they may put some 25 chicks on the ground and, it seems to me, they often are full of questions what to do the next year. Of course, the time honored Step 2 is to put the best of the pullets back under their sire and the best cockerel back over his mother.

Before anything else, I heartily recommend you survey the birds and find the very, very best bird produced. It may be a male or female, but the very, very best offspring from last year's effort.

Now check your records. How was this Best Bird made? Which male was used over which female to produce this Best Bird?

1. I'd sure like to repeat that, if I could. If it clicked in the past, it may be worth making that same matchup again.
2. If the Best Bird is male, I would want to put him back over his mother and her mother's sisters (if available).
3. If the Best Bird is a female, I want her under her sire, her father, if available or her sire's brothers if available..

I like inter-generational match ups, if at all possible. I would prefer that my entire breeding effort this year NOT be dependent solely upon a bunch of K's and P's. Looking at post moult, true adults is so very important to what these birds truly look like in their second, third and fourth year of life.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Breeding for higher egg production.


We get a good number of inquiries about egg laying and what breeders of Standard bred Rocks do about egg laying. I'll share a little bit about what I do and perhaps others can share what, if anything, they stress in the breeding goals.

Our Plymouth Rock varieties, Barred and White, will never lay like the Mediterranean breeds do, as they are simply too large and too focused to balance egg laying with meat production. But 200 eggs a pullet year is certainly respectable egg production and well within the capabilities of the Plymouth Rock. So how do we include egg laying in our breeder selection process?

My chosen breeders were selected last fall and I took them to the Knoxville National for judging. They passed with flying colors. Since then, they've been in lay and I've had a 90 day period to judge them for egg laying before including them in the breeding pens in a few weeks now.

1. How many eggs are they laying? To determine this, my layer groups are small. 4 pullets. I quickly learn which egg each pullet is laying. It's not that difficult. I also must collect eggs three times a day in winter to prevent eggsicles and I notice who is "in the box" and who isn't. Soon, I'm pretty sure about most of them. 4 eggs per week. 5 eggs per week. Only 2 eggs per week.

But, sometimes I semi-isolate a pullet with a pen within the pen, so as not to disrupt things too much and check an individual pullet or hen's laying. This is as close to trap nesting as I can do. It works for me. Most of the time my suspicions are confirmed.

2. I not only check egg laying rates, but I am also checking egg size and quality. Since I dislike hatching from medium to small eggs, if a female cannot lay at least a medium to large egg, with large being much preferred, I have second thoughts about including her in the breeding.

3. I also check interior egg quality. If a female continues to lay eggs with meat bits or specs of blood within the egg, I watch her closely. I keep checking those eggs. While not unusual for starting pullets to sort out these issues, it must not be allowed to continue.

So in conclusion, selecting breeders is not just about physical characteristics, not here, not on this farm. Do all breeders take these steps? In all honesty, it would seem quite doubtful. It is not a secret that some "lines" are notoriously poor layers, and layers of very subpar eggs. If egg laying isn't important to a breeder and the breeder puts the majority of focus upon the exhibitions, sooner or later, it is understandable that a strain defaults to being less than stellar layers of high quality eggs.

This topic might stir up a bit of a hornet's nest, but that's alright. It's cold. It's winter and a new topic won't hurt us.