The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[Silver Rock]

Since this is the "breeders" thread, designed for those of us serious about breeding to the SOP, I'll make my comments here, but not on the general Plymouth Rock thread as some of those folks may just be interested in nice backyard birds and that is perfectly fine.

The Silver Penciled Rocks (in LF), just like my Columbians, like the Blues and the Partridge are in need of serious breeders and in need of much help.  No one breeder has stock that will get an SPR onto Champion Row, let alone even BB.  An occasional BV is seen due to the limited number of SPRs entered in shows. The Whites are going to be tough to contend with although the Barred breeders are making up a lot of ground....and if I can brag a little, a bird from my 2013 breedings took BB at the Sunshine classic against some top notch Whites, so some of the "goofy" things I've tried is beginning to pay dividends.

Unfortunately the variety has been allowed to deteriorate to such a level that most flocks seen in the US come from the same basic line of birds and have the same underlying issues.  In order for this variety to move forward, it is my opinion that an outcross to other lines (perhaps those located in Canada) is going to be needed to resolve the issues with TYPE in the variety.  Color will come with the appropriate pressure in the proper areas....but, in the infamous words of Bob Blosl (God rest his soul), "you gotta build the barn first before you can paint it".

I am certainly not slamming SPRs, nor am I making derogatory comments regarding any one persons flock.  Simply making a statement of fact regarding the underlying and consistent issues with the SPRs seen in the US

Scott, I do understand what you are saying as the Silver Penciled Plymouth Rocks are in need of help but, in my opinion we have serious Silver Penciled Plymouth Rock breeders out there and in the next few years improvements will be seen. I do hope there are a few breeders willing to do the outcross that you are referring to and get a improved type. If I am correct Wynette has a outcross project going on now with some of your Columbian Rocks over her Silver Penciled Rocks and I am very much looking forward to seeing their progress in the years to come. For me I choose to breed within the Silver Penciled Plymouth Rocks "the Dick Horstman line & Danny Padgett line" and use a very strict selective breeding process to reach my goals. I do agree with you on the point that you are making in that no one singular line is better than the others and a quick fix "as this is what I have been saying for a while now ". To fix the problems the Silver Penciled Plymouth Rocks have in my opinion will be a breeding process of time and careful breeding.

Clayton Grace "Silver Rock"

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

.....let the hatching season begin!!!!

I have just gotten home (in between business trips) and placed my first hatch of 2014 into the hatcher. First chicks of the year are due Saturday. Pens are all single matings and I will likely have fewer chicks this year than in years past. I am only using 3 females (may add a 4th later if she begins laying again) and 2 males. First round of the three females and the sire from last yr are in the incubator....second male was added a week ago and I will begin collecting those a week from Saturday. Will finish up with my "project combination" to remove the brassiness....here's to a positive breeding season

As I set pens up every year, I keep in mind the words of Albert Einstein...."insanity...doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"

Rock breeders....are you started??

 

[aoxa]

.....let the hatching season begin!!!!

I have just gotten home (in between business trips) and placed my first hatch of 2014 into the hatcher. First chicks of the year are due Saturday. Pens are all single matings and I will likely have fewer chicks this year than in years past. I am only using 3 females (may add a 4th later if she begins laying again) and 2 males. First round of the three females and the sire from last yr are in the incubator....second male was added a week ago and I will begin collecting those a week from Saturday. Will finish up with my "project combination" to remove the brassiness....here's to a positive breeding season

As I set pens up every year, I keep in mind the words of Albert Einstein...."insanity...doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"

Rock breeders....are you started??

I am started here

Going to do my own single matings after I free up some space. First I have to meet an order for Naked Necks in March before I can free up that pen for my selected trio.

I have a good # of barred rock eggs in the incubator for selling chicks.

 

[DMRippy]

.....let the hatching season begin!!!!

I have just gotten home (in between business trips) and placed my first hatch of 2014 into the hatcher. First chicks of the year are due Saturday. Pens are all single matings and I will likely have fewer chicks this year than in years past. I am only using 3 females (may add a 4th later if she begins laying again) and 2 males. First round of the three females and the sire from last yr are in the incubator....second male was added a week ago and I will begin collecting those a week from Saturday. Will finish up with my "project combination" to remove the brassiness....here's to a positive breeding season

As I set pens up every year, I keep in mind the words of Albert Einstein...."insanity...doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"

Rock breeders....are you started??

YES... and NO. I am waiting for my new BR roo to get out of QUARANTINE....

driving me CRAZY too. The girls are starting to lay pretty well too. I AM working on the solid blue and black rocks.... splash will be a side benefit LOL.

As I was reading all this the thought was accuring to me that maybe a cross your Columbians would help the SPPR...... I surely read that about Wyenette making the cross but forgot about it. How would that work.... I don't know genetics of Columbians really.

ONE MORE QUESTION.... I could look it up but I am REALLY TIRED. I have been on the road ALL DAY for a funeral. The topic of Penciled birds has come up on another thread. It was pointed out that the wyandottes should have BLACK tail feathers.... is that required in these too? If so HOW would you get it back.....

I really should not ask technical questions when I am tired.... I might have to read AND understand them LOL.

 

[maryhysong]

.....let the hatching season begin!!!!

I have just gotten home (in between business trips) and placed my first hatch of 2014 into the hatcher. First chicks of the year are due Saturday. Pens are all single matings and I will likely have fewer chicks this year than in years past. I am only using 3 females (may add a 4th later if she begins laying again) and 2 males. First round of the three females and the sire from last yr are in the incubator....second male was added a week ago and I will begin collecting those a week from Saturday. Will finish up with my "project combination" to remove the brassiness....here's to a positive breeding season

As I set pens up every year, I keep in mind the words of Albert Einstein...."insanity...doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"

Rock breeders....are you started??

Not yet, but real soon. Waiting for the buff pullets to get their egg size up a bit more while I finish up some dividers and process some culls. Then I will be able to separate all 5 pullets so that I can mark every egg. This time around just a small hatch from each girl, to see what they might give me. Then I'll hatch more in the fall from the best pairings. These being so rare, especially out here I want to have the widest selection possible to start off with.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

I think silver penciled in all breeds would have the same requirements for color. Not knowing the SPR standard for color I am not certain on tails. In Columbian they are black "laced" with white edging

 

[aoxa]

My SPPR have black in their tails.

 

[DMRippy]

I think silver penciled in all breeds would have the same requirements for color. Not knowing the SPR standard for color I am not certain on tails. In Columbian they are black "laced" with white edging

when I get a few mins I will look it up. What about crossing to your columbians? What all would improve and what would i get?

 

[Fred's Hens]

All Rocks are composite birds. The first Rock was the Barred, the original Rock. The White was likely next and it's beginnings are cloudy as to whether it was truly just a pure sport out of the Barred, while questionable, is irrelevant, I suppose. The origins of the Rock Standard were formed when the Barred Rocks dominated. That is very important to remember I think.

The others, also composites, by nature of the extremely variant patterns, very different composites, must meet the same standard of the original Rocks. Again, they were/are composites of different foundational stocks. None of the other varieties of Rocks ever remotely came close to being as popular. They were niche birds, if you will, bred in fractional numbers compared to the Barred and White. Thus the gene pools were/are statistically a fraction as well. These realities simply make the other varieties harder and more challenging to "hold together" in their composite and keep them bred to the Rock Standard.

I tip my hat to those who breed the Columbian, the Partridge, the Silver Penciled. Oh, and the Buff? What a very, very challenging color and to keep a buff bird a Rock? Challenging indeed.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Crossing anything to anything is to start a wild fire of genetics. My word of caution here is that this not a trivial matter. I would strongly suggest that those beginning their Rock breeding career put most of this chatter out of their minds.

Do this instead. Start with hatchery stock and learn husbandry. Then, get a box of eggs or a solid trio or quad of the very best birds you can secure, from a breeder who will tell you the truth about what you're getting.

Breed that quad with the Two Family, spiral system for 5 years. Learn this craft. Bob always said that 90% of the folks will be flash in the pan, here today and gone tomorrow.

Propagation is pretty simple. Breeding quality birds takes a life time of commitment, passion and learning, learning, learning. Keep it simple. Shoot right down the middle. Stay small. Focus on quality. Making a mess is easy, breeding good birds is tough work. Build relationships with other good breeders. Dare to allow your birds to be exposed to peer review and judging.

Focus on ONE main breed. Very few folks can juggle more than two and do it very well. There just isn't the space, the pens, the money, the time or the patience.

OK, that's me (and a whole lot of Walt, Bob, Bill and other voices in my head) so take it for what you will.



.