That last drawing...those hens could be that hen in the pic...to a "T". Look at those back lines! Now the other, more modern, pic has more lift and that's easy to see....but which is the one we should be working for?
The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread
- Thread starter Fred's Hens
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What's correct is 20 degrees on a female Plymouth Rock. It's up to you to determine exactly what that is. I feel these are pretty close. The white may be a tad high, but not much. Unless you're at a show, what looks good to you is correct. At the show, what looks good to the judge. The reason the APA has ALWAYS used drawings is the perfect bird has never existed.
I'd breed Fred's pullet in a New York minute. A good male with the right or a little tall tail angle, it will be fine.
I have no idea but I like the one with almost no lift. I ordered eggs for hatching and they are coming in tomorrow so I will not need to worry too much about what I am going for until next year. I did order eggs from Jeremy partially because the tails do not have that strong upward angle. I just like the look of it.
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Oh crud. Old Timers disease strikes again. One needs to actually be on the right page when quoting from the Big Grey Book. I quoted 30 degrees, but that is for the males, of course. 20 degrees, as Tom corrected, is indeed the description in the Standard for the females, which is precisely why if you can see it rise? That's enough on my desert island and why you'll not see a whole crazy bunch of rise in my females.
If I wanted to raise American Dominique, I would.
If I wanted to raise American Dominique, I would.
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Most folks like this old photo/drawing. These were contemporaries of the E.B. Thompson's Imperial Ringlets of the early 1900's. These are the "Royal Puritans", a line that never gained as much notoriety, but did very well for themselves at the time. Again, to me? Just me? These are what is in my mind's eye. I know lots of you agree, and if you do not, that's fine too.
The body on these old birds is also longer. Something I like. Some of these Puritans are up on their legs and some of the are too short. Funny thing is? Nothing's changed. I have them both ways too, but much prefer to push toward a taller up female or they just don't move right while foraging.
This idealized, modern look just isn't for me. But who would complain if you had a couple? Not me.
The body on these old birds is also longer. Something I like. Some of these Puritans are up on their legs and some of the are too short. Funny thing is? Nothing's changed. I have them both ways too, but much prefer to push toward a taller up female or they just don't move right while foraging.
This idealized, modern look just isn't for me. But who would complain if you had a couple? Not me.
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There you go, Rock heads.
Tom, if you wouldn't mind, tell us about this female.
There ya go....that's the apple!
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These are E.B. Thompson's famous "Imperial Ringlet" birds. Mr Thompson literally crated up birds and sold them via ships around the world. Note the tail angles. The 1915 Standard called for males to 45 degree tails and females at 35 degrees.
But still, what is more important, to me anyhow, is the phrase "forming no apparent angle with back". That is much easier said then done, but it is that lack of distinct "break" or angle that gives these birds their unique beauty.
E.B. actually made money off his birds. Good money. One of the last to do so. I've never much figured a way to do much more than break even. That's OK. There are worse vices.
There you go, Rock heads.
Tom, if you wouldn't mind, tell us about this female.
She's white! LOL They're a little loose feathered, super wide tail feathers and have a little to much fluff. Very consistant type. They're recessive white with barring underneath. And yes they'll get brassy which is why they're raised in the shade.
I've had that line since 2002. Long story but one of my mentors, Rock Hall of Fame member Shelby Harrington sent these to me from his personal pens. That line has been champions for decades. It's was an easy line to breed, you put two birds together and you get champions. Unfortunately it has been going a bit too long. Shelby mentioned 10 years ago they needed outcrossed, but I didn't have the heart, especially after Shelby died. At this point I have no choice but to outcross. As a matter of fact, if anyone has any Doug Akers or Jeff Halback whites..........The birds still produce very good birds on the rare occasion that I see an egg. Hatchability is still pretty good and they still have pretty good vigor, they just don't want to lay. The layability has gotten consistantly worse each year. I'm very sentimental about this line.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even with careful line breeding practices, no line will last indefinitely. Time to resurrect!
The older drawings show a lower/fuller breast, which makes the gravy bowl more symetrical, on both sides of the bird. The modern drawing seems to want to tilt the bowl on it's side a little bit. I like the older look better, alot better.
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