The Rhodebar thread!

[tadkerson]

Redridge.

The under color in the British Standard calls for it (the under color) to be a creamy buff red on a rhodbar.. This is further evidence that the birds were wheaten and not wild type. Wild type barred birds have under color that is light slate color.

Tim

 

[RedRidge]

It is my understanding that the Brussbar was created using Barred Plymouth Rock (which would give the barring) and Brown Sussex (which would give the wildtype) so if you created your own line of Rhodebar using Barred Plymouth Rock and Rhode Island Reds you would also need to cross in something to get the wildtype to get auto-sexing that is easily recognizable at hatch.

Penny

So...?? If it's a wildtype with RIR and Barred Rock... is it automatically a Rhodebar if it's autosexed? Or is that too general?

 

[melroseladi]

A Rhodebar is an auto-sexing barred RIR so as long as it meets the criteria then I would consider it a Rhodebar. Now one thing is I am not so sure that a Barred Plymouth Rock is actually required. I would think that any barred breed could be used. It is my understanding, however, that the Sussex was used to create the Brussbar because of the traits of the Sussex
just as RIR was chosen to create Rhodebars because of the RIR traits.

I think it was just an attempt to "improve" both the Sussex and the RIR by making them auto-sexing which would be seen as an asset by many.

Penny

 

[tadkerson]

Almost all auto-sexing breeds are barred. The barring can come from any bird that is cuckoo or barred.

The wild type gene produces the plumage color like the light brown leghorn or the black breasted red old english game hens.

The wheaten gene produces the plumage like that found in a wheaten ameraucana hens.

Wild type chicks have the chipmunk type down.

Wheaten chicks have down that is not chipmunk- it is usually a buff color to a white/cream color. Some wheaten chicks may show small patches of brown or black on the back, neck or head.

Google the above mentioned fowl and you can see the difference in their plumage.

Tim

 

[melroseladi]

Thanks Tim. I wish I understood more of the genetics. It seems the more I read the more confused I get.

Penny

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
Tim the chicks you have shown are very Red enhanced, and they would make a perfect background for the double effect of Barring on the chicks, but most rhodebars at this stage lack this type of red Enhancements... and this is Why wheaten will not make the perfect or even a good Autosexing e allele because it depends on so many genes like s+(sex linked recessive gold) Mh(Autosomal Mahogany) Autosomal Red and other enhancers found on SQ RIR, Also we need to take to account that some genes may effect the expression of homozygous barring, so all in all wheaten is not a good e allele for autosexing birds... lets take a look a bird with the closest genetic make up to the Autosexing "Rhodebar" but this bird is not Autosexing... the Delaware, their genetic make up is for males. S/S eWh/eWh Co/Co B/B mh+/mh+..... While tim's Rhodebar would be s+/s+ eWh/eWh Co/Co B/B Mh/Mh... both birds are Barred Columbian Wheaten but Tim's bird would have to have all of the genes on the same bird to make it an Autosexing bird... Wildtype e+ does not have this issue at all, none of that. Silver, Mahogany, Autosomal red will not affec its autosexing traits, all you need is e+/e+ and B/B thats all... now tell me which genetic road do you wish to take? or even more, do you wish to change your birds that already carry e+ for eWh birds? infact changing your wildtype Rhodebars for Wheaten Rhodebars? all thing equal you gain nothing in terms of type and color.. this is what I would do if I wanted SQ Rhodebar birds... select the Best looking Wildtype Rhodebar bird you have(males would be best) keep an eye for the Best SQ or Herritage Rhode Island Red Pair you can get your hands on, the type of birds that will produce such a Rich colored donw tim showed just a few post ago.. Best Rhodebar you can get. mated to a SQ RIR hen.. now this will produce good quality birds, lets see how the F1s will look. while wheaten is a very unstable e allele, sometimes completely recessive and sometimes having an effect on ER chick down(as shown by Tim Adkerson a while ago) most eWh/e+ chicks I have hatch looks Chipmunk like in down color. some may look all wheaten(not keepers) I would keep the chipmunk looking birds and keep an eye for the Barred males with a headspot. by doing this cross you will undoubtedly enhance color and Type on your current Rhodebars even if you have lose Ture Autosexability...But thats why you are keeping the Wildtype looking chicks.. when the F1 chicks mature you can take the Best male and mate it back to the Rhode Island Red hen and the Best Female mate it back to the Rhode Island Red Rooster... but if you dont have enough room for two breeding pens just use the F1 males back to RIR females. again be in the Look out for Wildtype looking chicks.. after the BC1(Back Cross to Parent 1) you can use them with your mainstream Rhodebar lines..

 

[RedRidge]

I love this thread... so educational... albeit confusing sometimes.

But thank you Nic, Tim, Penny, et al for all of your posts and contributions.
Just when I think I have a plan, I get confused again.

I wish I could get Nic to write a good condensed version (from beginning to end - meaning several generations) of what possible combinations the HRIR and Rhodebar crosses will produce... which ones will look like what... which ones to use and cull and why...
I have so many pages of notes that now I'm beginning to realize that much of it is contradictory.
I know what I want "on paper" (I love genetics), but am having trouble visualizing it at this point.

Shoot... it took me reading this thread three times to figure out the "ideal" show roo is single barred but the ideal "breeding roo" is double barred (but as dark as possible for double barring).
Now I'm not even confident about that! LOL

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
Sorry I was editing my post while you wer eposting this... check out my breeding plan for the Rhodebar owners wanting to infuse SQ or HR RIR blood in their Rhodebars.

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
it just like Andalusian blues, they dont show the blacks or the splash.. yet they exist... Double barred males mated to SQ RIR hens would produce the Best looking Show Rhodebas on the Planet...

 

[melroseladi]

Sheri for me a Rhodebar cock is double barred. I have not seen any pics of winning Rhodebar cocks to know if they are showing single barred or not. I look at it as a single barred cock being one step away from being a "true" Rhodebar. I am going to be breeding for double barred cocks that are as dark as possible while maintaining the double barring.

Penny