The Rhodebar thread!

[nicalandia]

Ok @nicalandia etc... need some advice.
I have a variety of pure Rhodebar males and want to breed one to a few of my F1 pullets for a BC1. I've narrowed it down to 2 - #51 and #52.
F1s are getting close to pol so I need to decide...

#51 - structure is not a good as 52 but color is very correct and he has the best Rhodebar cock tail set I have ever seen. But he lacks the depth and width of 52.
#52 - good depth and width for a Rhodebar cock. Has a terrible high tail set and some blackening on his chest. This is the cockerel I bred to the hrir to create my f1s.

I went with 52 to create the F1s with the intention of using 51 for bc1. I'm now trying to decide if that is the correct decision. Trying to consider all the pros and cons. Or maybe I just use both and put each with their own F1 girls? Want to think long term too and don't want to use the same cock too many times to prevent fertility problems - not that twice is a problem but...
Thoughts? Pros and cons?

this is a hard one to call, I would say go with your gut feeling, I mayself would not be doing a Rhodbar BC1 yet, F1 pullets with best RIR will do my way, while I would have to cull even harder than the F1s as Wheaten and wheaten looking chicks are expected, so weeding out these cull chicks(around 60 to 70%) to keep the nice wildtype looking ones that are Dark..

 

[RedRidge]

Ok @nicalandia etc... need some advice.

I have a variety of pure Rhodebar males and want to breed one to a few of my F1 pullets for a BC1. I've narrowed it down to 2 - #51 and #52.

F1s are getting close to pol so I need to decide...


#51 - structure is not a good as 52 but color is very correct and he has the best Rhodebar cock tail set I have ever seen. But he lacks the depth and width of 52.

#52 - good depth and width for a Rhodebar cock. Has a terrible high tail set and some blackening on his chest. This is the cockerel I bred to the hrir to create my f1s.


I went with 52 to create the F1s with the intention of using 51 for bc1. I'm now trying to decide if that is the correct decision. Trying to consider all the pros and cons. Or maybe I just use both and put each with their own F1 girls? Want to think long term too and don't want to use the same cock too many times to prevent fertility problems - not that twice is a problem but...

Thoughts? Pros and cons?

this is a hard one to call, I would say go with your gut feeling, I mayself would not be doing a Rhodbar BC1 yet, F1 pullets with best RIR will do my way, while I would have to cull even harder than the F1s as Wheaten and wheaten looking chicks are expected, so weeding out these cull chicks(around 60 to 70%) to keep the nice wildtype looking ones that are Dark..

Well I was going to do some of both.
For the F1 back to RIR would you use RIR male over F1 Females or vise versa?
My concern with the F2 cross is that there really were very few if any really wheaten looking chicks in the f1 hatches - i suspect because the rir were naturally so dark. So I'm concerned I won't be able to differentiate and cull because they will all look so similar. What's your recommendation?

 

[michaelf]

Good info redridge and niclandia!!

 

[RedRidge]

My plan was to take my best F1 male and put him back over RIR. But. .. I was going to breed my best F1 Females to RB male. Why? Because I'm not confident my F1 over RIR will be able to differentiate the e+ew single barred from the ewew single barred unless we depend on autosexing being obvious. Big assumption.
So I figured doing some F2 and BC1 would be a good use of the breeding season in case the F2 was totally non conclusive

 

[nicalandia]

Well I was going to do some of both.
For the F1 back to RIR would you use RIR male over F1 Females or vise versa?
My concern with the F2 cross is that there really were very few if any really wheaten looking chicks in the f1 hatches - i suspect because the rir were naturally so dark. So I'm concerned I won't be able to differentiate and cull because they will all look so similar. What's your recommendation?

well.. Cull anything that looks like a RIR Chick, solid mahogany chicks(some RIR may have some striping on the back 90% of them are females I think) , cull harder for the Wildtype looking ones,

F1 males(proven to have shown wildtype looking chick down)over RIR females will give you 50% Heterozygous Barring chicks(females will be hemizygous which means only one copy of barring, same as Heterozygous for all intends)

now this BC1 Barred females will have a much improved type and color while being e+/eWh Co/Co Mh/Mh B/- which would bring all of the good genes back to Rhodebars

 

[RedRidge]

Well I was going to do some of both.

For the F1 back to RIR would you use RIR male over F1 Females or vise versa?

My concern with the F2 cross is that there really were very few if any really wheaten looking chicks in the f1 hatches - i suspect because the rir were naturally so dark. So I'm concerned I won't be able to differentiate and cull because they will all look so similar. What's your recommendation?

well.. Cull anything that looks like a RIR Chick, solid mahogany chicks(some RIR may have some striping on the back 90% of them are females I think) , cull harder for the Wildtype looking ones,

F1 males(proven to have shown wildtype looking chick down)over RIR females will give you 50% Heterozygous Barring chicks(females will be hemizygous which means only one copy of barring, same as Heterozygous for all intends)

now this BC1 Barred females will have a much improved type and color while being e+/eWh Co/Co Mh/Mh B/- which would bring all of the good genes back to Rhodebars

So if you were to breed an F1 male back to RIR females and keep the correct BC1 females - what would you then breed those bc1 females too?
See I'm thinking this is where the "other" BC1s come into play. By using a BC1 male from the RB over F1 females.

 

[Ihilani Coffee]

now this BC1 Barred females will have a much improved type and color while being e+/eWh Co/Co Mh/Mh B/- which would bring all of the good genes back to Rhodebars

This is my plan. Excited for these F1 to mature.

 

[nicalandia]

My plan was to take my best F1 male and put him back over RIR. But. .. I was going to breed my best F1 Females to RB male. Why? Because I'm not confident my F1 over RIR will be able to differentiate the e+ew single barred from the ewew single barred unless we depend on autosexing being obvious. Big assumption.
So I figured doing some F2 and BC1 would be a good use of the breeding season in case the F2 was totally non conclusive

eWh/eWh B/B males cant be autosexed(Delaware is just one example. barred basque breed is another) I would cull anything that dont look wildtypish or close to full widltype, even if this means keeping unbarred birds, Why? because a Widltype base RIR is much better than Wheaten based RIR,

why? because of the e+ magic, if you cross the e+/eWh RIR female to a good Rhodebar male you are bound to hatch e+/e+ B/- females. this are much Improved pure rhodebar females, and ofcourse some e+/e+ B/b+ males

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
breed BC1(from F1 Back crossed to RIR) to the best F1 males, BC1 males(F1 x to RB) cant have better type than F1 males, even if they produce non barred birds, they will produce e+/e+ B/B males if you breed enough of them.

 

[nicalandia]

taking into account that Type, Type and color and autosexing is of a must here and keeping at least e+(heterozygous is ok, e+/e+ is best) and B/b+(or B/- for females) the order of quality goes like this..(taking into account the current state of the Rhodbar breed)


BC1 Female/Male(F1x RIR)>> F1 Female/Female>>BC1 Female/Male(F1 x RB) >> Current Rhodebars

now if we take the much imporved F1 males e+/eWh B/b+ back to the Much Superior BC1 females this will give us a birds that are almost as good looking as BC1 but more improved than the F1s, especially the e+/e+ B/B males(will be visible at this stage) as eWh/eWh B/B males cant be sex,