The Rhodebar thread!

[RedRidge]

Yes Keith is a two edged sword.
My Underwodd RC RIR rarely go broody (Although I have one who is right now).
But my SC tend to go broody pretty easily.
It's handy having a few good broodies around but... If they all had this tendency i would likely be very frustrated with production goals.

 

[RICHIEBARKER72]

What if you found a good heritage barred rock crossed it with a good heritage RIR then bred the offspring pullets to a Rhodebar rooster

 

[rc50]

Hi.... there would be no need to do that... the thing is if you have a good true Rhodebar rooster all you need to do is breed him to RIR females... keep the females from this hatch and cull the males... the females would be Rhodebars....



Keith
SC
USA

 

[RICHIEBARKER72]

I thought that would give you F1 pullets

 

[RedRidge]

Hi....  there would be no need to do that... the thing is if you have a good true Rhodebar rooster all you need to do is breed him to RIR females... keep the females from this hatch and cull the males... the females would be Rhodebars....



Keith

SC

USA

Not quite. The females would be F1 and would only produce true autosexed birds of the f1s are bred back to a Rhodebar Cock. And even then only half would have the correct genetics.
To be correct they have to do more than look like a Rhodebar, they may have all the genes which will permit then to pass that along.
So.. At the very least you need homozygous wildtype in addition to the correct barring. F1s are only heterozygous wildtype.

 

[RICHIEBARKER72]

So what about the barred rock x RIR cross then breeding the pullets to a Rhodebar rooster

 

[SallyinIndiana]

So what about the barred rock x RIR cross then breeding the pullets to a Rhodebar rooster

A BR hen and a RIR rooster will give you black sex links.

 

[rc50]

you simply do not need to do that.... you will get a mix of birds.... the Rhodebar is a breed that has had the barring gene added to a Rhode Island Red... it should look act be just like a Rhode Island Red including body type... if you add more Barred Rock you are going to get a mix and the body type of a Barred Rock.... you are not improving or even getting Rhodebars.... just a mix and adding years of breeding to get them back to being Rhodebars... in the practice of grading... and this is what you would be doing... crossing in another breed.... to get back to almost... ALmost pure Rhodebars it would take you at least ten years.......


Keith
SC
USA

 

[rc50]

You know I have been told for a few years now I need wildtype in my Hambars so I can sex them at Hatch.... I am on my fifth hatch of true Hambars.. I started them from scratch... I was researching and starting to breed Hambars before most people if not all people on this forum even knew what Autosexing breeds are.... Being in SC i emailed one of the poultry people at Clemson... asked about any info they could give me on Autosexing breeds... the reply i got was someing like this... I was told what a SexLink was and that Autosexing would be sexing myself.... if you want a copy of the email i can forward it to you if you don't believe me.... I sold a lady a few years ago some Hambar chicks... told her how to sex them at hatch.... I also told her I wanted a male from her first hatch... this past spring she hatched out some chicks... emailed me and asked if I want a male... I said yes... we met and she handed me ONE and only one chick... a male..... i have him in a grow out pen right now... i will breed him the coming spring.... My point is on her first hatch she sexed every chick.... 100% ... no wild type....
I think the breeding into these birds was never really completed past just a hand full of years... and they were left on the shelf as everyone then went to raising SexLinks... I cul and cull hard... I remember what they should be fast feathering... have the correct body type....my males are almost white with a tint of yellow... females are dark yellow brown... some even have a smal eyeline... I have three small males about 14 weeks old now... I will cull them all... all are beautiful but have something wrong... one slow to feather.. another a crooked toe... the other... simply has too much black in his hackles.... there is more than one way to crack a nut......



Keith
SC
USA

 

[RedRidge]

I believe you hit the nail on the head here Keith. It's all about culling. You and I and other folks who care about perpetuating a breed, cull heavily. However, many people do not. I venture to say most people do not.
Were most of the F1s sexable? Yes.
But not all. And not real obviously in a few. Where there is doubt at less than 100% of the hatch I believe more culling and narrowing is necessary.
So... Should Rhodebars be homozygous wildtype? Yes. Can a majority of them be sexed at hatched if they are only heterozygous? Yes. But the point is the heterozygous are not quite soup yet for genetic assurability.
Now for Rhodebars this may be a bigger problem than Hampbars... I don't know. The reason it is a bigger problem than just the wheaten and barring genes is because too many supposed Rhodebars exist in the US now that have several other incorrect genes too. Columbian for instance. We cannot begin to eliminate the more subtle problem genes until we are assured the more obvious genes are correct.
I have some heterozygous wildtype single barred pullets that are beautiful. But i will cull more than 50% of any chicks they produce bred to a Rhodebar Cock simply based on looks at hatch.
"We" are willing to cull. Most people just breed and sell. I can only imagine the number of birds you have culled over the last five years. A applaud you for that. I just wish everyone was as tenacious.