The Right to Grow and Raise Your Own Food

[chickortreat]

As far as individual "code enforcement officers" (read lazy-and-not-willing-to-get-a-real-job) are concerned, votes hold no sway. "They're just doing their job", as has excused trashy behavior for years. A stick wielded with some skill would hold far more sway than a vote. Yeah, I know, it's too late for that. But ain't it a shame. What could be more fitting for a jerk who walked onto your property and tried to tell you what to do than to have to run in shame back to his government-funded vehicle and get off your land. Ah, the good old days.....

 

[olefarmersdaughter]

I love the argument from nay-sayers that 'if you want to raise chickens and grow your own food, then just buy a farm". In what universe can the average person afford to buy a farm? I don't know about anyone else, but even to buy a few acres anywhere close to my job. it will cost between $10,000 and $20,000 and acre AND the counties around here all require a minimum purchase of 10 acres to build a house. Sure there are one acre housing developments but they would never let you raise anything on them, and those a going for about $50,000. Unless of course I want to drive an hour to work each day, I'll have to be happy with a few backyard chickens and a small garden.

 

[DaikaijuTorira]

In an apartment situation you are generally renting living space from someone who owns the building and the land, although there are some places where you can own the apartment or condominium, but even then you do not own the land. Ownership rights and responsibilities would be held by the owner of the land. If the Landlord says no pets, one might gather together a group of people living in the complex and ask for that rule to be changed. Being faced with changing policy or the possibility of losing tenants, it would be the land owner's right to make that decision.

Personally, I find the idea of a cow on a balcony to be rather absurd. I can't picture there being enough room on a standard sized balcony for the healthy maintenance of a fully grown cow. (I could be wrong.) That being said, I have seen some very nice container gardens with a wide variety of fruit, veggies, and flowers on balconies and roof-tops, and I could easily picture there being enough room for a few fowl. Probably wouldn't myself, fear of heights combined with fear of the animal accidentally going over the rail and getting hurt, but that's just my opinion.

I don't know anything about HOAs. If it's a case where you own the house but not the land, I would guess it would be similar to the apartment situation. However, if you own the house and the land, and have signed over your rights to a non-governmental entity not bound by constitutional restrictions on governments... I just... I don't know. Having lived under both situations, when looking for a house back when we moved to Florida, we skipped over all apartments, condos, gated communities, and any others where we wouldn't have the rights of land-owners (or so we thought.)

Our ordinances seem a little odd to me, there is nothing that specifically prohibits livestock (horses, mules, goats, and cattle.) So we could have those, but no breeding within city limits and no allowing them to "roam at large." Two separate ordinances, enacted the same year, 1971, no hogs, and no live poultry. In another part of the ordinances, "common pets" are allowed as an accessory use of land, with the limit of no more than six animals over one year old. I don't really want to argue that we can have goats and cattle but not chickens and ducks out of suspicion they would simply create a new ordinance prohibiting all livestock within city limits.

My line is drawn at land ownership, my land, my rights, your land, your rights. It is not my right to tell my neighbors their lawn ornaments are offensive to my eyes and have to go, nor is it my right to tell my neighbors their dogs are offensive to my ears and safety and have to go, nor is it my right to tell my neighbors their plants are offensive to my nose and have to go, nor should it be, even though the lawn ornaments are ugly, the dogs (I'm surrounded!) bark at all hours of the day and night, and I am allergic to the plant species, a newer planting that wasn't there when we moved in, the scent causes a reaction when the wind blows from that direction. I could tell them I have a problem with any of these things, but it is not my right to force them to do anything.

But then again, our neighbors didn't complain about the birds either. Ours were discovered by a patrolling ordinance enforcer who happened to see a duck floating quietly in a pool of water. That caused him to drive down (end of a dead-end road) and see the others around the side of the house and the rooster on the patio. The roo allowed him to enter the patio and knock, but when I stepped out onto the patio he quickly placed himself between me and the stranger. He was my protector that day, and I betrayed him (them) by complying with the code.

 

[Smelly Chickens]

Thank you, Jack, you have made my day and my case against my neighbors in a duplex/small yard setting, in the city. They have 6 chickens and they smell. They smell so bad that it makes me gag. When it's hot and humid outside it's even worse.
I'm so sorry, chicken lovers, there is a time and a PLACE for everything and a small city duplex is not a place to raise barnyard animals. They do not clean up after them properly, I have talked to them about the odor that is making it impossible to sit in my small backyard.
Last week my landlord visited to fix a water leak and got a good whiff of what it has been like this summer in my yard. He immediately went to talk to them about the smell. Landlord said if he knew the chickens were going to stink so badly he would not have given them permission to have them.
The neighbors said they were sorry, brought over 6 eggs, put coffee grinds down next to our adjoining fence and now it smells like chicken crap and coffee.
This is why their are so many ordinances in so many different places to protect city dwellers from having to smell the smells of a barnyard. It's very sad that I will have to move from the place I love to get away from them with no guarantees that the next place I live won't have chickens too.

 

[Smelly Chickens]

There is a reason why people tell you to,"buy a farm", Animals smell. Especially in small enclosed areas. Farms have lots of land and your neighbors are likely to be far away or have animals themselves.
There is a time and a place for everything and IMO the city is no place to own chickens.
There are beautiful farmer's markets all over this city with fresh eggs to purchase. Please, let's all of us city dwellers go there for fresh eggs and not subject city neighbors to the barnyard smell.

 

[wingless]

Okay, Pretty sure everyone will send their roosters to attack me for this, but here goes anyway. When I read this, I totally agree with all of you. It seems like an important right. But then when I think about it from the opposite extreme, I wonder. For example, I think everyone should be able to have a tomato plant in their yard/balcony. And, in a yard, a few chickens is nice. But what if people go crazy? Say put a cow on the apartment balcony? Or cover the balcony in 12 inches of dirt and plant a garden? Dont the downstairs neighbors have the right to not have that? Honestly, people move to certain apartments, HOAs, neighborhoods because of a certain "look". Its true whether you live in the country, or the city. I just wondered where you guys all draw the line. Because while I have 3 chickens in my backyard and hope my neighbors dont notice, I really wouldnt want someone to move in nextdoor with 35 roosters and a cow. (Our backyards are about the same size as our house)This just isnt the place for that.

Just wondered what you guys thought about that sort of thing.... not trying to be disagreeable

I agree that permitting animals in residential areas will occasionally lead to unwanted situations, perhaps even including cows on apartment balconies. But there is a risk on the other side as well, and that is that if people aren't allowed to grow their own food they will forget how. So the question to me really isn't about whether we need to prohibit backyard chickens to prevent balcony cows; it is more a question of which extreme is worse, an occasional cow on an apartment balcony, or very large numbers of people who don't know how to grow food?

 

[big mami]

Well said, Wingless! And may I add that while I was living in the closely-packed suburban-type area of a big city I successfully had three hens in a very small back yard with NO smell at all. We cleaned their run and coop regularly (it made wonderful compost for our little garden!) and even their egg songs weren't nearly as loud as the neighbor's barking dogs. Like Wingless, I believe that humans in general, and Americans specifically, will suffer greatly if we do not learn how to become more self-sufficient. When the world runs out of oil (or it becomes prohibitively expensive - same thing) we will no longer have the luxury of finding every foodstuff known to mankind at reasonable prices at our neighborhood supermarkets. We will need to raise and grow our own food, as well as trade and barter with others nearby who are raising/growing what we didn't. Chickens are so perfect for this transition that it's uncanny. They are easy to care for, will eat almost anything, don't need a ton of room (compared with four-legged farm animals), and from them we get two fantastic forms of protein: eggs and meat. Cities should be encouraging small backyard flocks, as well as gardens in lieu of grass yards, instead of prohibiting them.

 

[chickortreat]

Sadly, self-sufficiency is nowhere near the top of anyone's list nowadays.

 

[Carin]

Smelly chickens

It is really sorry that your neighbours are not considerate and cleaning their coop. I do have a problem with chicken owners doing this as it creates a problem for the rest of us. In my opinion people like that will also not clean up whether it be chickens, dogs or cats. Unfortunately as it is chickens the misconception will now be that chickens are smelly as your name indicates. It could also be Smelly dog or cat. Would you please give your neighbours the webpage of BYC and direct them that there is a way much better than coffee to solve the smell problem. It seems as if they are willing to solve the problem but do not know how. Doing this might save you from moving and I am sure will let you have more often some eggs.
I really hope you can get this problem solved sooner than later.

Carin

 

[chickortreat]

I agree....up to a point. What offends one/some, may not offend others. I'm not big on coop-cleaning. I was raised on a broiler farm, so my 16 hens/2 roos don't create near a smell to me. Once you've walked through a broiler house occupied by 18,000+ chickens, in the winter, with the curtains up because it's too cold to let them down, and the ammonia is strong enough to make one cry, a handful of chickens is nothing.

As to smelly dogs........I own/operate a tree service, and have worked in yards where I had to watch not only where I stepped, but where I laid my ropes/tools, as there were landmines everywhere. Absolutely disgusting! Years ago, I was working in such a yard. It was not long after I'd heard of someone who got in trouble for not having an "approved" septic system. I asked my helper' "Reckon if my diet consisted only of dog food I could do away with my septic system. Just dump it in the yard like these dogs are doing?" People's perception of things is amazing.