The Trap Nesting Thread

[galanie]

I have read that egg laying ability is inherited from the rooster rather than the hen. Of course how you know how many eggs a rooster can lay is a mystery to me

Seriously though, I read in one of the old, old books about breeding and layers that the rooster's line is the one the egg laying ability comes from.

so you hatch eggs from the best layers, and keep the cockerels to breed from. i'd say keep the pullets too, and if you can deal with inbreeding some in the line, put that cockerel over his mother and sisters. and any other hens that are quality layers too i'd say. 

rooster lines may influence laying, but the hen's line influences size and type much more. (typically, not always tho)

My thought exactly on keeping the cockerels, etc. Plus I can say from experience in addition to reading that hen influences type and size. Does tend to muddy the waters though.

 

[MANOZ]

I simply have birds, and I seek to improve whatever I can with information i have learned. In the trapnesting past roosters were chosen from high end egg layers.This is where the rooster gets those genetics from, i also read that brother sister breeding were a no no,due to poor vigor.

Ki4got-------so are you suggesting i bring in new blood for breeding, what I'm asking is? I have a good australorp hen should i bring in another roo thats australorp but not from my flock. because many breeders have written that one can line breed mother/son or father/daughter for decades without ill effects to the flock. If i do get another roo then that roo has no record for me to validate if he is a good or bad roo.As opposed to the 2 roos that i have i know they come from a high end egg layer.

just trying to make good breeding choices.......and i do thank u ladies for keeping the thread informative!!

 

[galanie]

This thread https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/623070/standard-of-perfection
has a wealth of information from a very knowledgeable old chicken breeder. He discusses line breeding and all the rest. Also there is a thread called Poultry Book Reviews that has some great resources in it. Some of the books are available free online and have been linked there.

It seems, from reading these, that line breeding involves doing just what Manoz wants to do. As you say, never brother-sister but Mother-Son and Father-daughter is used extensively to perpetuate a flock. The danger is that you'll get a bad trait amplified, but with good culling practices you can counter that. Many old breeders gave another breeder some birds and that breeder would perpetuate the same line, with them both swapping chickens every 5-6 years. Though the swapped ones are of the same blood, they aren't too closely related after that many years to be of a danger. In that way a line can be kept "pure" almost indefinitely.

 

[ki4got]

Quote:

Ki4got-------so are you suggesting i bring in new blood for breeding, what I'm asking is? I have a good australorp hen should i bring in another roo thats australorp but not from my flock. because many breeders have written that one can line breed mother/son or father/daughter for decades without ill effects to the flock. If i do get another roo then that roo has no record for me to validate if he is a good or bad roo.As opposed to the 2 roos that i have i know they come from a high end egg layer.

just trying to make good breeding choices.......and i do thank u ladies for keeping the thread informative!!

it depends on what you're breeding for. if you're breeding a RARE breed to SOP, then no you wouldn't want to mix breeds. if you're breeding what you have to improve on performance, then what you're doing is fine and will keep the line going for years.

BUT with dorkings, there are very few serious breeders, so they are becoming increasingly inbred IMO, and even with 100% fertility, i'm still having hatchability issues somewhat. the dorking crossed chicks i'm hatching 100%, with the pure i'm about 50% and sometimes less. but since it's a dual purpose meat / egg bird, size is also a key concern as they are much smaller than they should be IMO. so crossing out to other lines is my primary concern, and once i have a good stable line of birds then i'll worry about how well they lay.

but honestly, i'm impressed with my girls. dorkings are reported to lay 3-4 eggs/week, i'm getting roughly 5 a week right now.

another example of why trap nesting is handy. you are using it to track laying statistics for egg breeds, i'm (hoping) using it to track lineage of eggs laid, so I can keep track of lineage. should get my leg bands soon so everyone will have a # to track too. right now i've got each hatch banded with different color bands, but even within the same hatch i have a hard time telling some of them apart. LOL

 

[MANOZ]

Standard Of Perfection gives me something to evaluate my birds from.For instance I have a mixed bred australorp roo with red down the neck.S.O.P. tells make that the ''Australorp'' is an all black bird.So I've bred the red out of the roo,this particular roo has 2 sons now and they both are all black,much closer to standard of perfection than their father.I have different breeds and they are all rare to me.Being fairly new to this way of living,I make no claim to know everything. lol

As galanie said there is much information out there on line breeding and in breeding.It is my understanding that ''in-breeding'' means breeding brother and sister.Many have said that problems occur very quick when ''in-breeding'' in such a manner.

Line-breeding is the mother-son,mother-grandson,father-daughter,father-granddaughter.From what I have read vigor constitutes when the line is in need of bringing in new blood.Many say to only breed your most vigorous birds,and that a dull lazy bird should not be chosen.Now i take vigor to mean an active lively, bird.Most of my flock is dual purpose birds.I have certain ones in that dual purpose list for meat and others for eggs.As we have discussed earlier within the thread about my barred rocks.I went with the advice u 2 gave,choosing the larger barred rock hen who layed a little less than her much smaller sister.

I wanna know who is laying what right now.......lol.......i feel it is a main part of stabilizing any line.I really dont think I could do this successfully without trapnesting.One would basically have to live in the chicken coop to know whats going on without trapnesting.I know quite a few people who raise chickens,and i ask them all the same question. ''How many eggs does that particular bird lay? I never get a solid answer.......lol.......and I know why!!!!!!!!!

Statistics gives me facts that i can rely on an its simple as that.

I needed all the help i could get and trapnesting gave me all the help i would need <------- that's my motto

 

[galanie]

I so very agree with you on the trap nesting. And now that everyone is finally laying in the trap nest, I so very much need to build another. It is getting pretty wild out there with 7 layers using one nest lol. If there was a door on it, I'd have to basically live out there to let out one after the other.

A rooster can sure put a kink in the works with a trap nest though. When there's a pileup he'll get really helpful with "here's a good place to lay, ladies" and that place is not another trap nest, it's somewhere you don't want them to lay. This is the root of my problems with them laying elsewhere this winter. Got rid of that one but now I have another young one. He so far hasn't been that helpful and secretly I hope he never is, but a good one will do that. Dangit. So out to make more nests I need to go!

 

[MANOZ]

galanie------if it helps......I'm batting my eyelids singing "getter done" ......I know youre gonna ''pachow'' your way through those trapnests in no time with that air gun. lol

 

[galanie]

LOL! Yep, today I PACHOW'd my way through most of one. It wouldn't take so long only I have to resaw all the wood to width since it's from pallets. Trying to use the thinner wood to lighten them up and retain solid construction. Got the sides done and the top and bottom at least attached via the end boards, then it dawned on me: I don't really need a bottom at all except the front, back, and another just to have the box set even, and only part of a top. Plus, since the fasteners are solid, I don't need as much cross bracing as my first one had. BINGO! Less weight now. Got ideas to finish but tomorrow will have to do to see them happen.

I just have to remember: A couple of good, solid fasteners will suffice where a million weak ones won't.

Putting a reference here to my own first pics of first nest: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/567357/the-trap-nesting-thread/160#post_7576426

 

[galanie]

Well here she is, along with an idea I had for a door. Ran out of thin plywood and I was looking around for something to use when I spotted some old shelves from a grocery store display. Out comes the angle grinder lol. Don't know how this will work but I'm going to find out. The holes in the wire measure 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 so I figure I don't need to cut out any holes.




Found some handles in the garage and stuck one on there. This is much lighter than my first one and I'm really happy with it. The girls are too! They almost instantly preferred the new one over the old but are using both.



Now to put the door back on the first one and get to trap nesting!

 

[MANOZ]

awesome tweak to the design,I like it. Looks like it will work just fine.