The Trap Nesting Thread

[ChickenCanoe]

Oh, so well said and I think that is something overlooked.

 

[The Kibble Goddess]

I did it! I read the whole thread. And I must say I am inspired. After 5 years of ditsing around with various chickens, I have started a flock of Buff Orpingtons with the goal of maintaining a sustainable, closed flock to provide my family with meat and eggs with minimal or no off farm inputs. A straight run batch from a local hatcher yielded 12 pullets and 11 cockerels. Then I realized I didn't really know how to manage my flock to achieve my goals. This thread and the standard of perfection thread have been of immense help. I probably won't start trapping the girls till the new year because A) my girls are only 18 weeks old, B) I need to fit trap doors to my nests, C) I need to put up fencing and shelter for my coming milk goats, and D) we just got the garden area fenced and I'm layering in materials for a lasagna style fall garden - 28' x 38', and I'm kind of overwhelmed. But now I know how to get where to go. I think it's going to be easier to get their than I feared as some of the girls seem ready to lay and I have 2 gorgeous boys and am thinking of keeping a third as he's so big. The breeder pulled eggs from multiple hens and had 3 roosters running with the flock, so I should have pretty good genetic diversity.

I have got the nest boxes reconfigured and milk crates in them. We made the boxes too big (18" x 18") and the girls were partying in them as many as 5 at a time. Now I have the crates in them making them snugger and I block them off in the afternoon and unblock them after the girls go to roost. That way they can't sleep in them but they are available first thing in the morning.

I do have one question, how many trap nests should I have for a flock of 12 layers? I know it should be 3 regular nest boxes per bird, but since they can't come and go as they please from the trap nests, should I have 4 trap nests for the 12 layers?

I also have one guinea hen. 6 straight run keets yielded 1 girl and 5 boys. She is not gonna' thank me. 2 of the boys may be on their way to freezer camp to try to even up the numbers.

I have figured out feeding, housing, ranging, health care, and now I feel I'm on my way with a breeding plan. I feel so much better.

I will be lurking more I'm sure, and I'll be sure to report back when I get my trap doors done. Thanks for being so generous with your knowledge.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

This thread's been very interesting. I imagined trapnests wouldn't let a bird out. I wonder if the approach would work for laying ducks.

Thanks, Manoz, and sorry about all your losses over these years. I imagine it's even a worse setback to lose a bird you know the production of.

Is there away to record laying that would work for someone working away during the day?

I wonder if, with ducks, one can, at dusk, put them in a nest that traps them out, but lets them out in the morning, after they lay, to graze.

Edit: I meant to write " I imagined trapnests wouldn't let a bird IN."
See, I thought one had to physically put the birds into their specific nest at night. This whole in versus out thing *whew* This is why i failed at peekaboo. ;-)

I imagine it would work for ducks as well.

One method would be to use different colors of food coloring on the vents in the morning but that would be labor intensive.
Another idea is to make breeder pens where you only have one hen per unit.

I did it! I read the whole thread. And I must say I am inspired. After 5 years of ditsing around with various chickens, I have started a flock of Buff Orpingtons with the goal of maintaining a sustainable, closed flock to provide my family with meat and eggs with minimal or no off farm inputs. A straight run batch from a local hatcher yielded 12 pullets and 11 cockerels. Then I realized I didn't really know how to manage my flock to achieve my goals. This thread and the standard of perfection thread have been of immense help. I probably won't start trapping the girls till the new year because A) my girls are only 18 weeks old, B) I need to fit trap doors to my nests, C) I need to put up fencing and shelter for my coming milk goats, and D) we just got the garden area fenced and I'm layering in materials for a lasagna style fall garden - 28' x 38', and I'm kind of overwhelmed. But now I know how to get where to go. I think it's going to be easier to get their than I feared as some of the girls seem ready to lay and I have 2 gorgeous boys and am thinking of keeping a third as he's so big. The breeder pulled eggs from multiple hens and had 3 roosters running with the flock, so I should have pretty good genetic diversity.

I have got the nest boxes reconfigured and milk crates in them. We made the boxes too big (18" x 18") and the girls were partying in them as many as 5 at a time. Now I have the crates in them making them snugger and I block them off in the afternoon and unblock them after the girls go to roost. That way they can't sleep in them but they are available first thing in the morning.

I do have one question, how many trap nests should I have for a flock of 12 layers? I know it should be 3 regular nest boxes per bird, but since they can't come and go as they please from the trap nests, should I have 4 trap nests for the 12 layers?

I also have one guinea hen. 6 straight run keets yielded 1 girl and 5 boys. She is not gonna' thank me. 2 of the boys may be on their way to freezer camp to try to even up the numbers.

I have figured out feeding, housing, ranging, health care, and now I feel I'm on my way with a breeding plan. I feel so much better.

I will be lurking more I'm sure, and I'll be sure to report back when I get my trap doors done. Thanks for being so generous with your knowledge.

Good for you for reading the whole thing. I've posted here several times and I know I haven't read everything.

Good question on number of nests but if you want an accurate record you should probably have at least 6 since Orps will lay quite well their first year and will probably lay at least 5 days a week. That means most days you'll be getting about 10 eggs. With the majority coming in the morning, as many as 6 will be laid by 10 am. That is a general observation. If 4 doesn't work for you, you can continue to add them until you hit a sweet spot.

I'm pulling some of my nests out in two of my breeding units and completely reconfiguring them because they won't work with trap doors the way they're set up now. There's 2 in each unit, they're inside the building and there are permanent access doors so I'm turning one sideways so I'll have room to include the trapping mechanisms.

 

[Rhinoman]

My trap nest in the 8' x 12' Woods-style colony coop. We've been using them for several months now. I'm testing my preliminary design now with red sex links, which I figure are roughly the same size as Ancona's.
Sometimes we find two eggs in a nest box or a box with an egg but no bird. Obviously birds are getting in and out without tripping the nest. Also my original design employed stapled heavy-string hinges as you can see in the center of the first picture. This proved to be too flimsy and I replace the string hinges with 1 x 1 brass hinges when they pull apart. The hinges are four to a package for about $5, each nest box requires 4 hinges. The screw tips protrudes slightly so I file them down, takes a half minute then there's a little trick I learned: I back the screws out a half turn, this looses everything up and the door falls as freely as my stapled-string hinge door did.


There are a few things I will do differently when I make more boxes. Above is my original plans. This design used 5 sheets of 3/4 poplar. It is two separate 23-1/2 x 75-1/4" boxes and a separate 36" x 87" poop board. The reason I did this was because my coop door was not wide enough to fit a one piece 12 nest trap nest through it. Once assembled this is very heavy, it's also expensive, the plywood is $40 a sheet.
Next time I will share the middle piece as roof for bottom boxes and floor for top boxes. Also I will use the roof of the top nest boxes as my poop board. I will hinge the [primary] doors right at the spot where the top of the trap door is as I so wonderfully illustrate below on the right, they will open up instead of down. I will use draw catches to secure the bottom doors and slide bolts to secure the top door. In my current design the wood shavings get caught between the primary door and the nest box and stress the hinge also as you can see above the [primary]doors on the top nest boxes don't open all the way a flaw in design. Furthermore when the kids open the [primary] doors to get eggs they end up putting some of their wieght on the door and stress the piano hinge I cut up for the [primary] door hinges, this has caused two of them to come out we put them back with longer screws. In my future design the back will be (removable for cleaning nest boxes) 1/4" plywood ($24 a sheet). Because my future coops will be 12' x 16" I will be building 16 trap-nest nest-boxes. They'll be 20" deep instead of 23-1/2" (unnecessary large and hard to reach the back of to retrieve eggs) and only 11" x 11". This design will use 3 sheets 3/4" poplar and 1 sheet 1/4" pine. This should prove to be a more economical and lighter weight.
+
Because the birds where getting in without tripping the nest I'm trying a new trap-door design as you can see from the pictures below. The new door design is on the left, the old on the right. We believe that the original hole (made with a 4' hole saw) is too large and some birds may actually be squeezing through as we find tripped nest that are empty! Also because the hole it is at the seam there is stress on the hinge when the birds are trapped. The new design (2-1/2 hole-saw hole with a little jigsaw work at the top) is considerably smaller, and as my son pointed out, egg shaped. If you look closely you will notice the seam where the hinges are has been lowered (by an inch). This will make it harder to get under the door without tripping it.

I think these modifications will do the trick I will post the results.

On a side note one might notice how far off the ground my roost are. Not appropriate for heavy breeds but the Ancona's (and red sex kinks) get up there no problem. My Ancona's actually go one further and were roosting on the hopper windows of the half monitor 8' up!

 

[ashlieneevel]

Woohoo!!! I read the entire thread start to finish in one sitting! Go Me!

Rhinoman your nest boxes look nice and fancy!!

I'd love an update from the person who started this thread so many years ago already.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I would too but @MANOZ hasn't been online in over two years.

 

[ashlieneevel]

I would too but @MANOZ hasn't been online in over two years.

Thats too bad i feel quite invested into this thread after all that reading LOL.Its obvious this is a tried and true method with it being around for as long as it has but I still can't help but wonder if this ever does more harm than good by causing the bird undue stress which in my understand can cause problems with laying if the bird is stressed. perhaps that only occurs in very rare occasions or maybe it doesn't ever happen but i would imagine the chicken might become frightened by the repeated trapping and eventually become scared of nest boxes. i think thats how i would feel if I was a chicken lol but I know you cant project like that onto them. Its certainly effective in figuring out who is doing what and when and all that which is definitely valuable information. Trap nest interest me but I wonder if its better for the birds by keeping them in small flocks of different egg color layers so you can still get the same information without having to repeatedly trap an animal. i.e. keeping one Black Copper Maran with one, Favorelle, and one Ameraucana. in one pen but having multiple pens in that combination as needed. Granted it takes up a heck of a lot more space but seems to be a more kind alternative that produces the same results.

 

[jbkirk]

Thats too bad i feel quite invested into this thread after all that reading LOL.Its obvious this is a tried and true method with it being around for as long as it has but I still can't help but wonder if this ever does more harm than good by causing the bird undue stress which in my understand can cause problems with laying if the bird is stressed. perhaps that only occurs in very rare occasions or maybe it doesn't ever happen but i would imagine the chicken might become frightened by the repeated trapping and eventually become scared of nest boxes. i think thats how i would feel if I was a chicken lol but I know you cant project like that onto them. Its certainly effective in figuring out who is doing what and when and all that which is definitely valuable information. Trap nest interest me but I wonder if its better for the birds by keeping them in small flocks of different egg color layers so you can still get the same information without having to repeatedly trap an animal. i.e. keeping one Black Copper Maran with one, Favorelle, and one Ameraucana. in one pen but having multiple pens in that combination as needed. Granted it takes up a heck of a lot more space but seems to be a more kind alternative that produces the same results.

But that would mess up breeding. And when you only have one breed...

 

[ashlieneevel]

But that would mess up breeding. And when you only have one breed...

yes well certainly if you had only one breed what i was talking about wouldn't work but that isnt what I was talking about. I'll try to explain what I was thinking below

Say you are working with a 3 family rotational line breeding set up and you limit your hatching to 8 weeks in spring.

All your pullets from Family A and All you pullets from Family B and all your pullets from Family C from your hatches between that period are tagged so you can identify them to the pen their egg came from. You would cull as you normally would up until the point of lay where you would narrow your selection down to your 8 best pullets from each family leaving you with a total of 24 pullets in total for the breed.You would do the same for the other breeds you are working with. For this scenario we would be using 3 different breeds each with a unique egg color. We'll say for the sake of argument we are breeding Ameraucanas, Faverolles, and Rhode Island Reds. It is easy to differentiate between those breeds egg color from one another.

So you now have 24 total POL Pullets of Ameraucanas, 24 total POL Pullets of Faverolles, and 24 total POL Pullets from RIR.

You would now pair an ameraucana pullet with a faverolle pullet and a RIR pullet and place them in their own pen which will be called Pen 1 you would do the same for the remaining pullets creating Pens 2 through 24.These birds would have no interaction with any cockerels or roosters at this point in their life. You would monitor each pen for 1 year from the time they start laying.

After that year of monitoring you would then select the very best 2 birds from each breeding family (A,B, and C) for each breed and return those birds to the pen their egg came out of so you can use them for breeding stock. You would cull your leftovers and make those 24 pens ready again for that years pullets who are about to come on line. You then perpetuate the cycle each year. This would allow you to monitor for best egg production without having to trap birds and in no way would "mess up breeding" because you aren't breeding anything until you make your final culls and return your chosen stock to the breeding pen they came from.

I admit this does nothing for people who only want to breed one type of bird which I'm assuming is your situation based upon your comment but a system like this wouldn't mess up anything as far as i can see because you aren't breeding anything at this point you are simply growing and monitoring potential future stock.

I'm certainly not some experienced breeder so I could really be way off base here. I've only just begun to start learning about proper breeding but from my limited understanding of the subject I feel that this could be a viable alternative to someone who didn't want to use trap nests and who was interested in breeding multiple breeds with distinctive egg colors. I personally want to breed multiple breeds with distinctive egg colors and despite how effective a trap nest is and has been for all these years i still have some reservations about them which in all honestly might be unwarranted. Also the amount of time you have to dedicate to monitoring the trap nests and releasing birds throughout the day is a little off putting. What I just proposed produces the same result with a lot less work.

Its possible i'm completely off my rocker lol it wouldn't be the first time but this sounds pretty good to me

 

[jbkirk]

yes well certainly if you had only one breed what i was talking about wouldn't work but that isnt what I was talking about. I'll try to explain what I was thinking below

Say you are working with a 3 family rotational line breeding set up and you limit your hatching to 8 weeks in spring.

All your pullets from Family A and All you pullets from Family B and all your pullets from Family C from your hatches between that period are tagged so you can identify them to the pen their egg came from. You would cull as you normally would up until the point of lay where you would narrow your selection down to your 8 best pullets from each family leaving you with a total of 24 pullets in total for the breed.You would do the same for the other breeds you are working with. For this scenario we would be using 3 different breeds each with a unique egg color. We'll say for the sake of argument we are breeding Ameraucanas, Faverolles, and Rhode Island Reds. It is easy to differentiate between those breeds egg color from one another.

So you now have 24 total POL Pullets of Ameraucanas, 24 total POL Pullets of Faverolles, and 24 total POL Pullets from RIR.

You would now pair an ameraucana pullet with a faverolle pullet and a RIR pullet and place them in their own pen which will be called Pen 1 you would do the same for the remaining pullets creating Pens 2 through 24.These birds would have no interaction with any cockerels or roosters at this point in their life. You would monitor each pen for 1 year from the time they start laying.

After that year of monitoring you would then select the very best 2 birds from each breeding family (A,B, and C) for each breed and return those birds to the pen their egg came out of so you can use them for breeding stock. You would cull your leftovers and make those 24 pens ready again for that years pullets who are about to come on line. You then perpetuate the cycle each year. This would allow you to monitor for best egg production without having to trap birds and in no way would "mess up breeding" because you aren't breeding anything until you make your final culls and return your chosen stock to the breeding pen they came from.

I admit this does nothing for people who only want to breed one type of bird which I'm assuming is your situation based upon your comment but a system like this wouldn't mess up anything as far as i can see because you aren't breeding anything at this point you are simply growing and monitoring potential future stock.

I'm certainly not some experienced breeder so I could really be way off base here. I've only just begun to start learning about proper breeding but from my limited understanding of the subject I feel that this could be a viable alternative to someone who didn't want to use trap nests and who was interested in breeding multiple breeds with distinctive egg colors. I personally want to breed multiple breeds with distinctive egg colors and despite how effective a trap nest is and has been for all these years i still have some reservations about them which in all honestly might be unwarranted. Also the amount of time you have to dedicate to monitoring the trap nests and releasing birds throughout the day is a little off putting. What I just proposed produces the same result with a lot less work.

Its possible I'm completely off my rocker lol it wouldn't be the first time but this sounds pretty good to me

Yeah I understand here you're coming from.
It seems that your solution is for people how have lots of money and very little time, while the other is for people of have lots of time but very little money.
But that is my interpretation of it.