The Trap Nesting Thread

[Rhinoman]

Except from "High egg Production from individual hens, pens and flocks" published in 1922

"The Hogan system, as we understand it, has not worked out well with us. Have studied it and tested it but did not find it reliable. With us that plan failed badly, and both ways. Birds that by the test should have done well, did not; while others that ought not have laid well, proved to be good layers. One hen that laid 249 eggs did not show up well by the Hogan test, while another that did extra well laid only 179 eggs.

When a man uses trap next for FIFETEEN YEARS (my emphasis) -uses them every day in the year, keeps careful records and studies these records=he has a lot of theories knocked out of him. His judgment is the 365th day."


Is that inspiring or what? Most of the breeders in the book trap nested. The book can be downloaded from Google.

Yes, I actually quoted myself! Trap nesting is how egg production was increased. It was used extensively, with no ill effects! So many old timers on this site write of times past when their backyard flock averaged 200+ eggs a year. You'll also read post from people who raise standard bred poultry and keep sex links for eggs! Why not just get your chosen breed to lay better?
People wonder whatever happened? How is it that most standard bred poultry are not laying anywhere near the numbers they used to? Who trap nest and keeps accurate trap nest records anymore? Very few; it's too time consuming. But it is a proven method for increasing egg yield and within only a few generations. Do it for a number of years and amazing results will realized.

Read through the above mentioned book and you'll see standard bred Reds, Brahma's, Rocks, Wyandotte's, Orpington's, Leghorns etc with staggering egg/yr records!

We are testing our trap nest right now, we will be breeding standard-bred RC Ancona's. The emphasis will be breeding to standard but trap nest records will be taken into account. Due to severe loss by predation last year we are two years behind schedule in our breeding program. We were frustrated but not defeated, new enclosures were built. Adjustments were made. We have not lost a bird this year, and will begin anew next spring with fresh stock.

***Worth repeating: "When a man uses trap next for FIFETEEN YEARS (my emphasis) -uses them every day in the year, keeps careful records and studies these records=he has a lot of theories knocked out of him. His judgment is the 365th day."

 

[jbkirk]

What are the dimensions of your door? And where is the cut in it? (the new one)

 

[Rhinoman]

Here you go! We've not had any issues with the new style doors so far. No escapes, no double eggs, one empty tripped box so far, screw was adjusted, works fine now.

Something I failed to mention in my earlier post with my trap door illustrations: on the back of the primary doors there are 1/2" #4 wood screws positioned so the bottom of the door rest slightly higher than the hinged portion. As illustrated below.



The screws keep the doors from tripping when the birds land on the perches in front of the doors, I chose screws instead of mails because screws can be adjusted easily. I tried removing them when the old style doors were not tripping consistently. But the result was of course like I said: the doors tripped when the birds landed on the roost. With the new-style, lower doors and the screw properly adjusted, everything works like a charm.


On a personal note; it might seem strange to worry about such trivial things when I'm not even breeding yet. Predators shut that down last year and I didn't want any more precious and rare standard-bred Ancona's till I was certain I could keep them alive! So this year is all about preparation. We've changed some of our methods, built more secure enclosures and fenced in "free range" area's. The chickens are no longer allowed in the death-trap woods. My red sex links are thriving and the few chickens that I have from last year are as well. Haven't lost a bird this year! I even still have a few two year old hatchery birds, our "first" chickens. Thing is I'm demanding of myself; I've worked out my entire life and although I was never very big at 160 I could bench double body weight raw and squat triple body weight. I've always topped my personal records in one way or another. Now at 52 working 65hrs/wk and driving 10 more, plus parenting seven children ages 16-1yr, I can't ever outdo any of my standing lifting records, I fail to progress. That's where the breeding comes in, I can only get better at this. We homeschool so the kids and wife are home all day. We have the time to trap nest and keeping records and writing all this stuff down and figuring all this out develops critical thinking. It's a win, win. My goal is to increase productivity of standard bred Ancona's to match the claims of Cecil Sheppard's famous Ancona's and do this with birds that win at shows, as he did.

 

[123farm]

I have to admit, I did not read all 48 pages of this thread.

I am managing a flock of 100 birds. They vary in age from 5 months, to 5 years. With only 5 roosters, we get an average daily egg count of 35-40. That means over half of our hens are not laying often or not at all. On top of it, we provide eggs to our onsite restaurant for Sunday brunch. The older hens are producing poor quality eggs, runny albumin, thin shells. I have been hand sorting them and only taking the younger hen's eggs for sale, but this is wasting a lot of time. We have two coops, one with 12 nest boxes and the other with 16. I cannot make brand new boxes especially for trap nesting this many birds. I would like to modify our existing nest boxes and fit them with a door and frame. Is it necessary to have the nest be extra long in order for the door to close? If so, has anyone tried a sliding door? My plan is to trap nest for five days in a row. I have ordered leg bands in 5 different colors. Each day will have a color and each girl who lays an egg that day of good quality will get a band. At the end of five days, I should be able to look around the flock and easily see who is going to become chicken soup next time we cull. Have an of you guys tried this with more than just a few birds?

 

[losttexan]

I made it through 30 pages.

I find myself in a very similar situation. Does anyone know of or can recommend a good commercial cage front or other quick trap solution? I don't have time right now to build a bunch of new nest boxes and get the hens acclimated to them (although it will be a winter project). I'm just looking for something I can use to make accurate cull decisions.

 

[knjinnm]

123
I would start by sending all hens over three years of age to freezer camp. You do not mention the type/breed of hens in your flock which could impact egg production and quality.

 

[123farm]

123
I would start by sending all hens over three years of age to freezer camp. You do not mention the type/breed of hens in your flock which could impact egg production and quality.

Well. since I just started managing this farm two months ago, I am not sure which are the oldest. I asked the previous manager and he says he can't remember which he ordered and when. We have many different breeds. Astralourp, Barred Rock, Red sexlink, golden laced wyandotte, Rhode Island Red, Welsummer, Amerucauna, Australope, Orpington, and a bunch of mutts that we hatched this spring for a farm camp program we have here. I cant tell which are old or just full feathered or low in the pecking order... honestly, most of them look old to me.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Quote:

I have to admit, I did not read all 48 pages of this thread.

I am managing a flock of 100 birds. They vary in age from 5 months, to 5 years. With only 5 roosters, we get an average daily egg count of 35-40. That means over half of our hens are not laying often or not at all. On top of it, we provide eggs to our onsite restaurant for Sunday brunch. The older hens are producing poor quality eggs, runny albumin, thin shells. I have been hand sorting them and only taking the younger hen's eggs for sale, but this is wasting a lot of time. We have two coops, one with 12 nest boxes and the other with 16. I cannot make brand new boxes especially for trap nesting this many birds. I would like to modify our existing nest boxes and fit them with a door and frame. Is it necessary to have the nest be extra long in order for the door to close? If so, has anyone tried a sliding door? My plan is to trap nest for five days in a row. I have ordered leg bands in 5 different colors. Each day will have a color and each girl who lays an egg that day of good quality will get a band. At the end of five days, I should be able to look around the flock and easily see who is going to become chicken soup next time we cull. Have an of you guys tried this with more than just a few birds?

What is your goal of having a different color legband for different days of the week?

I use numbered bands in 5 colors. One color for each year the pullets hatched. Each color starts over with numbers. After 5 years I have few birds left from the previous year the color was used. I color code the years the same as queen bee marking colors. That way I can look at a bird and know exactly how old they are.

I made it through 30 pages.

I find myself in a very similar situation. Does anyone know of or can recommend a good commercial cage front or other quick trap solution? I don't have time right now to build a bunch of new nest boxes and get the hens acclimated to them (although it will be a winter project). I'm just looking for something I can use to make accurate cull decisions.

Stromberg's carries them but they're a bit pricey. They have 2 sizes.
http://www.strombergschickens.com/product/Chicken-Nest-Trap/nests-and-accessories
http://www.strombergschickens.com/product/Chicken-Nest-Trap-Big-Bird-Nests/Large-Bird-Nest-Boxes

ETA
I just found this that's the same but cheaper than Stromberg
http://dblrsupply.pinnaclecart.com/nest-boxes/trap-nest-front-for-oversized-breeder-nest/

They also sell a box of 35 for $645.


another read for you
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4244538/

123
I would start by sending all hens over three years of age to freezer camp. ...

X2

Well. since I just started managing this farm two months ago, I am not sure which are the oldest. I asked the previous manager and he says he can't remember which he ordered and when. We have many different breeds. Astralourp, Barred Rock, Red sexlink, golden laced wyandotte, Rhode Island Red, Welsummer, Amerucauna, Australope, Orpington, and a bunch of mutts that we hatched this spring for a farm camp program we have here. I cant tell which are old or just full feathered or low in the pecking order... honestly, most of them look old to me.

Since you aren't trying to preserve and improve a single breed, your purposes are simpler. All you need to know is which birds are laying right now. You can use the finger method to check distance between keel bones. A hen out of production will have a shriveled pale comb, dry vent and narrow space between pelvic bones.
There's more complete information here.
http://albc-usa.org/documents/ALBCchicken_assessment-2.pdf

However, keep in mind that molting hens will exhibit those characteristics and can be quite productive once recovered and after the winter solstice.
Since I only raise one extremely rare breed I'm working to improve, I don't cull every couple years unless they are poor producers during good months. I have some older hens that are great producers from January to September. I don't want to lose their genetics just for younger birds that may lay 30-50 more eggs a year.

 

[losttexan]

Thanks, ChickenCanoe - that is all helpful information. I have 23 pullets/hens, all free-range on six acres, cooped together, and am averaging 14 eggs/day. They are fed flock raiser free-choice, are treated with a scoop of scratch once daily, and have oyster shell available. Grit is easily obtained from environment.

It's difficult to tell, however, how exactly those traps work by a static collapsed picture. Anyone have an idea of how these work, or an example? I'm trying to fit them to the Little Giant plastic wall-mounted nesting box: http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/little-giant-single-nesting-box?cm_vc=-10005

I suppose I will simply have to order one and see. Most of my birds lay brown eggs, and it would be nice to be able to identify who is laying what.

 

[123farm]

Quote:
What is your goal of having a different color legband for different days of the week?

I use numbered bands in 5 colors. One color for each year the pullets hatched. Each color starts over with numbers. After 5 years I have few birds left from the previous year the color was used. I color code the years the same as queen bee marking colors. That way I can look at a bird and know exactly how old they are.

***In the future, the colored bands based off of year hatched is how I will do things. As of now, since I have no idea who is actively laying, or how old they are, my thought was that over the course of five days, a good layer should produce at least 3 eggs. So, she will have 3+ bands by the end of the week. Those that have less than three bands, or none will be considered for culling. The reason for color differences I suppose it just to make it easier to see since we have so many hens. After we cull the non-layers, I can tag the remaining hens with two colors- the ones I know we hatched this year and the rest (which will be up for culling in another year). Since this is a for profit farm, I can't run it like my little flock at home. These ladies have to pay for their feed or we can't keep them. They are certified organic so the restaurant here can make great stock with them.

After I posted here I went out to do some work in the coops (thanks to another thread on here, I have poop boards filled with Sweet PDZ and I am thrilled with them!, Had to finish my last two). I was thinking that our second coop is only a few months old and the older hens haven't taken to using it. So, for those 5 days I could just shut the door of the new coop, forcing them to only use the smaller coop for a short time. Then I would only have to make 12 trap doors instead of 28. I will just have to go out more often to let the hens out so new ones can go in.

You mentioned breeds... and a purebred, heirloom breed would be my goal for the future, but for now I am trying to just fix what fell apart when the old farm manager went back to school and the farm was left with no caretaker.

As far as the pelvic bones, besides being very hard to catch and check close to 100 hens, I read that the pelvic bone measurement is for egg laying potential and not actual laying quantity. I need the group average to be higher than 50%. I would like to see 70-80% (if I have 100 hens, I am getting an average of 70-80 eggs per day). I am in southern California so I might be able to catch them before production slows for winter if I can get these doors made in the next two weeks. right? It goes by daylight hours and we still have 12-13.


I will check out the pre-fab doors.... thank you