The Wyandotte Thread

It's not so much that the comb affects fertility as that genes for lower fertility are inherited with the comb. Chickens have a bunch of traits that are known as pleiotropic, meaning they're inherited as a unit rather than singly. Rose comb birds inherit genes that markedly lower fertility.

There was an earlier question about the pea comb - it's not been studied as thoroughly as the rose comb. The stuff I read concluded that the pea comb did have some effect but not as bad a one as the rose comb. The pea comb was associated with lower growth rates in summer chicks like broilers; the researchers guessed that it was because the bird couldn't get rid of heat very well (since the face/comb/wattles are the main way chickens get rid of body heat), and with lower libido in males.

Walnut combs are (as you'd expect, since they're pea + rose) problematic as well, probably the most problematic of all, but again have not been studied much because they're a show comb, not a production comb. In fact, I strongly suspect that they wouldn't have studied rose combs like they did except that Wyandottes were being pushed as the Next Big Thing in production birds around 1900-1930. It was the large-scale farmers that got so frustrated that the research was seen to be vital. Most of the time researchers may know about the weird stuff - like the fact that the frizzle gene makes the bird's metabolism go wonky - but don't care that much, because nobody's trying to raise twenty thousand frizzled birds for maximum production.

I really do think it's worth considering which breeds "won," coming out of the golden age of poultry breeding at the end of the industrial revolution, and which are being raised now only as a curiosity or as an attempt to preserve genetics. The winners are all single combed. We managed to beat the Jungle Fowl out of the birds on almost every other front - we changed color, body type, seasonality, broodiness, feathering, growth rate, even temperament. But evidently you just can't mess with comb type too much unless you want consequences.

I don't personally have any axe to grind within the Wyandotte fancy. I am very happy when they hatch rose combed. I'm not going to chuck the single combed ones, though, and I do think that any breeder of any animal needs to look things in the face. If you're not getting any fertile eggs for months on end, something's up, and it's not just that the males are big. Cold hardy should mean producing through the cold, breeding through the cold, not just surviving through the cold.
 
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So are your single comb birds fertile during the winter? Do the single comb breeds lay eggs during the cold with out artificial heat? I have found the single comb breed cock birds have just as much trouble with fertility in the winter as the rose comb birds....because it is linked to how much light they get during the day.
 
We could set our BLRW, Blue and Black standard Wyandotte and bantam Black and Partridge wyandotte eggs on the window ledge and they would still hatch.....can't even kill them with a power outage. The only variety we get single comb chicks are the BLRW and about 3 out of 100 SLW chicks. The pens run about 1 rooster to 8-12 hens depending on space. I guess with the scientific research we should be hatching only a small number of chicks, yet we ship out hundreds and keep a ton of chicks for us to grow out too. I wonder if they only did research on large fowl wyandottes or flocks that were dealing with fertiliy issues because of another factor. Just because a study says one thing doesn't make it law.

Research can go either way…..heck, look how long they linked Autism with vaccinations. For years people have been delaying or avoiding vaccinations and putting their children at risk because of flawed reasearch. I think the true reasearch is in breeders backyards in normal conditions, not some lab. Other factors can affect fertility like diet, inbreeding, disease, bugs, environment, too much fluff on the hinney, young rooster…..etc. I don’t know if you raise Wyandottes, but if you get a lot of single comb in your chicks it is something buyers want to know and should know. We don’t keep any single comb chicks and there are lots of breeders and customers that feel the same as we do and if I bought a box of Wyandottes and had a lot of single comb I would not be happy….I would be expecting a replacement on the large number of single comb. Wyandottes are rose comb, not single comb and the serious breeders that are truly trying to improve their stock and not just help out their wallets would not intentionaly breed away from the standard by breeding the single comb birds.

Hatcheries breed single comb and other breeds into their Wyandottes to get better egg layers or meat birds……may as well advertise your farm as a hatchery, not a “exhibition breeder” and not someone trying to breed to the standard.
 
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There is a HUGE difference between production birds and show birds.

It is obvious that production birds are all single combed. Most research (reliable) is done by breeder companies that could care less what the bird looks like as long as it has economic traits--F.E., livability, health, growth rates, laying rates, etc. They also breed inbred lines and then outcross to make F1's so that they have hybrid vigor working for them (that is also studied as just mating 2 inbred lines doesn't guarantee that the F1's are expressing a positive effect.).

I love the look of a rose comb but since it holds up in cold weather much better than a single comb, it's also obvious it doesn't shed heat as well in summer. Since I don't light my bantams up north it is of no matter since they don't lay in winter anyway.
 
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Hi seedcorn. I am curious where you are at in northeast Indiana. I live right outside of fort Wayne in new haven. Your name interests me because I sell on seed starters and other products to farmers. With a name like seedcorn I couldn't but ask if you sell seed or farm.

Jonathan
 
I've been culling out any single comb birds in my BLRWs for several years and fertility is still very good on their eggs. 39 out of 41 eggs out of the last batch I set in the fall were fertile. I've only had my SLWs for a couple of years now, but I'm using the same approach with them.....any single combs are not used in my breeding pens. If you just want pretty hens for laying the single combs are fine, but if you're trying to breed your birds to the standard I still think you need to cull the single combed birds. I don't hatch in the winter anymore, but when I did both single combed breeds and rosecomb breeds had much poorer fertility in winter....I agree it has more to do with the winter conditions than it does what type of comb they have.
 
Mrs Turbo, I like you more every day. That was well put.

And HEY, Its a Katy sighting!

Turbo I agree with the point you are making also, is ANYTHING fertile during the depths of winter when it is so cold and you arent turning the heat and lights on for them?
 
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Thanks TX

You know, I am not trying to down anyone’s single comb Wyandottes, they are still pretty and very useful birds for backyard eye candy, egg layers and meat birds. I just think this is another excuse that is being used for breeders that hatch a high number of single comb Wyandottes. Using the single comb Wyandottes in a flock breeding toward the standard is not breeding toward the standard because you are using a Wyandotte with an automatic DQ for having the single comb. I would not breed and show a white leghorn with a rose comb.
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Did you know that white rosecomb leghorns were accepted into the APA in 1886?

Most of the white leghorns you see are single comb. Production egg layers.

More of the rosecomb white leghorns are show birds. Perhaps this is due to that very same rosecomb fertility thing that has been discussed.
 

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