The Wyandotte Thread

[Duramaxgirl]

Wow those Wyandottes look so tasty! I usually butcher mine at about 18 weeks. And cook them in the crock pot with a little Worcestershire sauce. YUMMY!!

 

[ki4got]

for my own faster growing, meatier birds, i simply hatch out my EE eggs bred by my dorking roos... right now i can sell even the cull dorkings for more than it's worth it for me to eat them. LOL

i haven't had any cull blrw roos yet, as i've only got 1 each LF and bantam, and sold all the rest off easily. I have enough birds that i sell way more than i process usually.

 

[NanaKat]

Fertility of my Columbian Wyandotte roo is affected by temperatures over 90 degrees. when it gets that hot fertility drops to 50% Any hotter and it drops to 10 to 20% so I stop collecting until temperatures retuned to 80 and below.

I have the same issue with Cochins.

 

[Texasmja]

Fertility of my Columbian Wyandotte roo is affected by temperatures over 90 degrees. when it gets that hot fertility drops to 50% Any hotter and it drops to 10 to 20% so I stop collecting until temperatures retuned to 80 and below.
I have the same issue with Cochins.

Can I ask what line your Columbian is? I have some coming. Interesting to know about the warm temps affecting fertility, because it gets HOT here.

 

[NanaKat]

Carl Jarvis is the Oklahoma breeder and he had them for many years. When I bought my first trio from him, I got a great cockerel. When Carl chose to focus on his OEGB and Rosecomb Bantams, I was able to purchase his breeders. At his suggestion, I kept that cockerel instead of his rooster to cover the hens.
I will ask where his birds originated. Loads of pictures are in my album in my profile page.

Oklahoma has had two years of drought, not unlike Texas. temps last year reached 121 degrees in central Oklahoma.

 

[Bentley]

I agree John.  There is no reason to ever use a single comb and would never suggest doing that.  Fertility issues related to the rose comb is only when the male is homozygous (RR), females are not affected either way.  Using a heterozygous (Rr) male in the flock is all that is needed.  I talked with an old time breeder and he told me that the only time he has fertility issues with his Wyandottes is when it is really cold...but he also advised using plenty of roos - 3 for 10-15 hens.

I keep reading the suggestion to not use homozygous (RR) males. So if they are not RR then what other comb gene do by carry? And if the males are Rr then that means half the offspring will also be Rr, of those half will be males and half females. The next generation then will have 25% rr birds which would not be rosecomb. This is not the way to raise pure Wyandottes to get to the point the a quarter of the offspring are not rosecomb. I am pretty sure there is a misunderstanding here.

 

[BlacksheepCardigans]

The fertility issues in homozygous rosecomb Wyandottes are so well known that Wyandottes are used as low-fertility controls in poultry experiments (in other words, when poultry scientists say "Hey, we need a bird we absolutely know will have crap sperm so we can compare our experiment bird to it," they choose a Wyandotte).

From my PERSONAL point of view, "cold hardy" and "heritage" doesn't mean "can't produce chicks from November to April" and "needs a 1:3 rooster-hen ratio." So, though I worked hard to obtain some really, really well-bred Wyandottes a couple of years ago, I didn't keep them pure. The original purebreds are still in my pen, but they've been under a Jersey Giant, a cochin, and currently are under a first-import Cream Legbar. All single combs, and all on purpose. So please don't take my opinion to be one of a Wyandotte breeder. I am a breeder who isn't going to tolerate a heritage bird who can't live a long, normal, chickeny life, so I am currently breeding projects only, starting with very well-bred show birds and working toward something large, looser-feathered, fast-growing, early laying, and reliably healthy.

That means I am not very interested in keeping a certain comb, so if that means you stop listening now that's fine. However, it also means that I made the decision to move away from the SQ type fully aware of exactly what it meant and after investing in some super birds. Here are the facts; you can make of them whatever you want.

1) Homozygous rosecomb roosters have a low sperm count, low motility, difficulty getting the sperm up to the forming eggs, and also have behavior issues that mean they don't pursue the hens as aggressively.

2) This has nothing to do with age, size, fluff, or body type. It's the comb.

3) It would be virtually impossible to use only Rr males and only RR females and sustain a long-term breeding program. Every generation will have half its individuals be "undesirable" RR males and Rr females. That means you'd have to do what you already do - cull heavily for type in each generation - and THEN you'd have to do a full season of putting the prospects with another breed and test breeding and test hatching and (for the pullets) trap nesting, THEN cull half or more again because they showed themselves to be the wrong genetic type. And every single generation would require that. Each generation would require two years instead of the current one, and every generation would see you culling twice as much as you already do, and the intermediate year would always be "wasted" on mixed-breed test breedings.

I think you pretty much have two choices if you're going to have a rosecomb breed:

You work toward only RR birds, because those are going to have the best type and reliable comb production, and you research enough that you know the truth, admit the drawbacks, and disclose to any potential new breeders the fact that this is a really tough breed that couldn't actually survive in a low-interference heritage-farm situation where there's no trimming, no AI, the expectation that all eggs all year round are going to be fertile, and a normal rooster ratio. In other words, you own up to it and say "It's worth it to me."

OR, you give up the reliable rosecomb production and know that you're going to get about 25% single combs in return for having the birds be a self-sustaining breed that doesn't require special handling. And, again, you let new breeders know that they are going to lose a bunch of otherwise show-quality birds because they'll be born with the wrong comb, and you own it, and you say "It's worth it to me."

The only thing you can't do is straddle the fence, if you look those facts in the eye.

 

[NanaKat]

My CW flock periodically drops a single combed chick. I have a vigorous rooster who takes down a hen when first presented to him. He is attentive and a masterful dancer. My hens are great layers, who go broody and make great mothers. Fertility is good.
One thing you did not mention is that a few chicks often do not live beyond 12 weeks of age. (Don't know if this is characteristic of other breeds). And that large Wyandottes can have connective tissue problems around the heart and arteries.


I am also involved in some projects with Columbian Wyandottes. I have placed my rooster over Australorp hens to improve fertility in the offspring and am working on the Birchen color variety and working on Blue Columbian.

 

[Texasmja]

And that large Wyandottes can have connective tissue problems around the heart and arteries.

Is there any research regarding this?

 

[Bentley]

The fertility issues in homozygous rosecomb Wyandottes are so well known that Wyandottes are used as low-fertility controls in poultry experiments (in other words, when poultry scientists say "Hey, we need a bird we absolutely know will have crap sperm so we can compare our experiment bird to it," they choose a Wyandotte).

From my PERSONAL point of view, "cold hardy" and "heritage" doesn't mean "can't produce chicks from November to April" and "needs a 1:3 rooster-hen ratio." So, though I worked hard to obtain some really, really well-bred Wyandottes a couple of years ago, I didn't keep them pure. The original purebreds are still in my pen, but they've been under a Jersey Giant, a cochin, and currently are under a first-import Cream Legbar. All single combs, and all on purpose. So please don't take my opinion to be one of a Wyandotte breeder. I am a breeder who isn't going to tolerate a heritage bird who can't live a long, normal, chickeny life, so I am currently breeding projects only, starting with very well-bred show birds and working toward something large, looser-feathered, fast-growing, early laying, and reliably healthy.

That means I am not very interested in keeping a certain comb, so if that means you stop listening now that's fine. However, it also means that I made the decision to move away from the SQ type fully aware of exactly what it meant and after investing in some super birds. Here are the facts; you can make of them whatever you want.

1) Homozygous rosecomb roosters have a low sperm count, low motility, difficulty getting the sperm up to the forming eggs, and also have behavior issues that mean they don't pursue the hens as aggressively.

2) This has nothing to do with age, size, fluff, or body type. It's the comb.

3) It would be virtually impossible to use only Rr males and only RR females and sustain a long-term breeding program. Every generation will have half its individuals be "undesirable" RR males and Rr females. That means you'd have to do what you already do - cull heavily for type in each generation - and THEN you'd have to do a full season of putting the prospects with another breed and test breeding and test hatching and (for the pullets) trap nesting, THEN cull half or more again because they showed themselves to be the wrong genetic type. And every single generation would require that. Each generation would require two years instead of the current one, and every generation would see you culling twice as much as you already do, and the intermediate year would always be "wasted" on mixed-breed test breedings.

I think you pretty much have two choices if you're going to have a rosecomb breed:

You work toward only RR birds, because those are going to have the best type and reliable comb production, and you research enough that you know the truth, admit the drawbacks, and disclose to any potential new breeders the fact that this is a really tough breed that couldn't actually survive in a low-interference heritage-farm situation where there's no trimming, no AI, the expectation that all eggs all year round are going to be fertile, and a normal rooster ratio. In other words, you own up to it and say "It's worth it to me."

OR, you give up the reliable rosecomb production and know that you're going to get about 25% single combs in return for having the birds be a self-sustaining breed that doesn't require special handling. And, again, you let new breeders know that they are going to lose a bunch of otherwise show-quality birds because they'll be born with the wrong comb, and you own it, and you say "It's worth it to me."

The only thing you can't do is straddle the fence, if you look those facts in the eye.

Very true, it is well documented that the RR gene has some influence on fertility due to lowered sperm counts and viability. This is not Wyandotte specific, but rosecomb specific. However, as I posted earlier, when studying fertility and sperm numbers and viability researchers will nearly always use sperm numbers much lower than what the rooster actually deposits in the hen under natural mating. If your males are actively mating hens as frequently as they should, they will be inseminating far more, sperm than is needed to produce fertility. The problem with the RR birds is that they produce less viable sperm so if mating behavior and frequency is decreased fertility will be effected FAR earlier in these birds than non RR birds. So, good fertility can certainly be obtained in RR birds, they just need to be actively mating birds. In my experience looking at more bird flocks than I can even count, 90% of the time fertility problems are due to infrequent mating.