The Wyandotte Thread

[WyandotteTX]

More likely a round of applause I would think. Well put Rudy.


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[slybird353]

Rudy I appreciate your opinions and passion for Wyandottes as I am sure that we both have the same fervor for the breed. Would you cross a Brahma back to a Wyandotte? Would that be keeping them pure? You mentioned that you would prefer to put a bird in the coop that does not carry a gene for single comb… well… I guess you need to dispose of your Wyandottes because they all carry that recessive trait and it will always pop up. As far as how you get your bird to SOP perhaps might not be as important as the fact that they are of true Wyandotte type. There are so few Wyandottes of many of the accepted varieties that the emphasis should be placed on preserving this breed no matter how it is done.
You wrote “As breeders, part of our responsibility is to preserve the genetic make-up in the breeds we raise. We can crossbreed and have quicker results. Those results might even win more prizes or look better. But when we do so, we are not maintaining that genetic make-up and we are likely losing a large portion of genetic diversity with each cross.” The Wyandottes of today look much different than the silver laced variety that can trace its origins to New York State during the early 1870's The standard for them has changed as well. As far as genetic diversity some lines have been so inbred that they have a family tree with no branches thus lacking in any genetic diversity. If poultry breeders always maintained that mindset we would still be raising Asiatic jungle fowl.
You also wrote “we are focusing on a selfish goal: winning a show. At all costs, we want to win and this causes us to take short-cuts” I can promise you that we do not take short cuts and winning at a show is not what motivates us. As a matter of fact we enjoy the shows for simply showing our “wares” if you will, and enjoying the company of other enthusiasts and as a matter of fact shows place so low for us in our program that we make no mention of our show wins or BV this or that on our website.
I respectfully agree to disagree with you Rudy but I know there is one thing we can agree on…. Whether they are crossed or not….. if they look like a Wyandotte and walk like a Wyandotte…. Well….I am sure they taste like chicken!

 

[Duramaxgirl]

Is there any way someone can post up photos of our breed from the early part of last century? Or post up a link to photos? I'm curious as to how far they've come...or not come. Thanks

 

[WyandotteTX]

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I have posted this link before but will share it again for you. There are many excellent photos and illustrations of Wyandottes from the turn of the last Century in all of the varieties.
Its a very long book, over 400 pages but scroll thru it and you will see all of the images I speak of. If you have time to read it, its interesting to say the least.

http://books.google.com/books?id=t9...&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[Duramaxgirl]

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I have posted this link before but will share it again for you. There are many excellent photos and illustrations of Wyandottes from the turn of the last Century in all of the varieties.
Its a very long book, over 400 pages but scroll thru it and you will see all of the images I speak of. If you have time to read it, its interesting to say the least.

http://books.google.com/books?id=t9...&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Thanks so much! I've read this whole thread... I must have missed the last time you posted it... I'm reading it now... I may be new to wyandottes... but I'm here to stay!

 

[Katy]

I've got the 1898 APA standard.....no pictures just descriptions in that one. The next oldest Standard that I've got is from 1910...that one has pictures that look almost identical to what the pictures in the 1998 Standard look like.

 

[WyandotteTX]

Yes my first SOP that I bought has all the old black and white drawings from Schilling of the SL, White and Buff. Still some of my favorite Wyandotte images.
I would love to find a real copy of this Wyandotte SOP but I have a feeling that would be pretty hard to do.

 

[Mrs. Turbo]

We post our show wins on our website because we are very proud of them and have put a lot of time and money into making our line of Wyandottes what they are. Our chick prices are higher than a hatchery because of the money spent raising hundreds of chicks each breeding season to improve our breeders (proof being the nice started pairs of Wyandottes that have been posted all over BYC as well as the auction sites) and the cost of all the shows we attend so we can compare our birds to other exhibition birds and see where we are in our breeding program. We do not make money off the birds….it is all put back into the pot of shows and raising birds…..we actually are in the whole for the year and use our paycheck money to fill the gap. For us….raising Wyandottes IS all about improving the breed to the standard and attending the shows because it is something we really enjoy. We also like sharing great birds with other people that love Wyandottes as much as we do. Who else would be crazy enough to spend 3 hours a day caring for animals and weekends building and cleaning pens. We also take the kids with us to the shows…not all 5 at one time because some are still a little young, but this is a great activity the family enjoys and they all pick out their own birds to breed and show. 90% of the birds we show are our own birds that we bred and raised and the few times we show someone else’s bird….due credit is given. We get out of our home state of KY have traveled to some of the top Wyandotte and call duck shows and the Wyandotte and Call duck Nationals where top breeders gather and we have done pretty well for an inexperienced "wyandotte breeder that has only been raising wyandottes for 5-6 years". We do post some information we learned along the way....it is up to you to pick and choose what information works for you and your breeding program. With the wins behind us and not being a stranger in the “poultry show world” we can truly call FoleysWaterfowl a farm that breeds and raises exhibition Wyandottes and Call ducks. Another thing that makes a great breeder is gracefully loosing at a show and taking the opportunity to improve your birds in the areas they are lacking. There is nothing wrong with asking advice on breeding….we still do. We don’t know it all and still learn new information all the time. Jerry was just chatting with Rudy about breeding the Partridge Wyandottes we have. We do raise the bantams, but they are a little different than the standard and Rudy has been raising them for some time now. I think a lot of Partridge Wyandottes originated from Rudy because the more I search I found it to be true. The bantams are a lot further along and a lot of the kinks have been worked out already.

I know the single comb debate has been beaten to death, but to date we have not hatched any single comb chicks from our line of Blue or Black Wyandottes…..not a single one. Our goal is to have the same results with the other Varieties. There is not a fertility problem in our Blues and Blacks....we had a ton of chicks last year. There are other long term Wyandotte breeders that can say the same thing. I can see about getting them on BYC to give some advice…..heck, there are some great wyandotte breeders here already. Rtroxel, WyandotteTX, and Wayne86. I am sure there’s more, but they are the most active lately on this forum…..

 

[seedcorn]

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Enjoyed your comments. This discussion is exactly why "show" birds are completely different from production birds. In show birds, "looks" are the only thing that is important. Because I'm a "purist" I only want birds that look like the "old" standard and not the current hot trend. Side note, your 2nd paragraph is unnecessary in this discussion and untrue (last half).

 

[rtroxel]

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First, single comb is a simple recessive gene that is recessive to rose comb. I targeted my single combed breeders several years ago and eliminated them. I haven't had a single comb in several hundred chicks since and if I get one, I know what is going to happen to that bird (unless I can get the SOP to switch to Wyandottes with pea combs

). There is actually a pretty obvious difference between a rose comb that carries single and one that is homozygous for rose. If you look at the pic you posted, you can see rough edges and a fairly flat overall comb. Those are generally the effects of carrying a single gene.

You mention that the varieties are so rare, we must preserve the breed "no matter how it is done." Preserving a breed can never be accomplished by crossbreeding. By crossbreeding we, by definition, take a breed and make half of it another breed. That is not preservation of any one breed by my standards, at least. If we take the time to learn about color genetics, we can make a good cross with the closest color and work our way back without losing the basis of the breed. Just because Brahmas, or Cochins or whatever where part of the original recipe for Wyandottes, in my opinion, that doesn't make it not crossbreeding to use them.

When I say genetic diversity, I don't mean in one breed. A breed isn't supposed to be genetically diverse. That is the definition of a breed. The chicken as a whole needs to be diverse. Each breed should remain a breed to maintain the diversity of the whole. That's why crossbreeding gives us hybrid vigor and other advantages commercially.

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Please expound. I don't bite, at least not hard

The panic caused by the Exotic Newcastle scare a few years back and the Avian Influenza is, admittedly, largely due to the huge amount of $$$$ that stands to be lost. a 0.5% reduction in egg production over 2 million hens is 10,000 eggs/day. Those hens could never be treated on an individual basis and group treatment is sometimes more costly than dealing with the loss in production. In my opinion, that is why commercial poultry is especially susceptible to disease. And, I will still maintain that the right strain of the right disease would hurt commercial poultry much more quickly and in a more devastating manner than it could ever affect the pure-bred hobby for these same reasons. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't just say it ain't so. My use of the word "any" was exaggerated. Point taken.