Quote:
Except that the question was on the numbers of heritage wyandottes. Regardless of which definition of "heritage" you use, hatchery birds are not heritage birds. So, yes, the overall number of birds representing the breed/variety as a whole is much much higher, but if you remove hatchery birds from that equation you are left with a lot less.
ETA: I don't have any idea of the numbers, or of the definition of "heritage" that was intended in the original question, just wanted to throw out that while those numbers seem low they may not be so far under the actual numbers as they may seem at first glance. Especially depending on how strict your definition of heritage is.
Two points:
One: I am counting breeding birds. I will hatch several hundred chicks this year. None of them will count until they can reproduce their genetics (of which most of them never will...yummy). Only actual adult birds of some show quality are what I am counting.
When I start counting breeders, I am talking about breeders of birds that are not hatchery quality, as was just mentioned. I can think of only 3-4 breeders of white Wyandottes in the country that have any quantity of breeders. Jon has about 50 and Larry Dye has probably about the same or a few more. Maybe Jesse Paul has some number but I have no idea how many. There are a couple people advertising White chicks in the Press. How many do they have? If you have a trio, does that really count? I guess, but that's why I bumped up my estimates. Each of the people I mentioned has spent years selling trios and pairs and boxes of chicks. But how many people have kept an actual breeding flock?
Let me give you a personal example: For about 5 years I hatched and sold adult Partridge Wyandottes all over the place. Of the actual people I sold to, I can not think of any that has ever shown me a flock raised out my birds. Shawn Hensley used to but he sold out last summer. Most of those people have about 2-3 pair still, but none has an actual breeder flock of 10-20 hens and 3-4 excellent males or more. They just keep calling and asking for more birds to keep their limited flocks alive.
So how many BYCers out there have 3-5 White Wyandottes that could, by any definition, be considered heritage? That is the key question, but my gut feeling is that the answer is relatively few. I bet there aren't 200 Whites in actual breeding flocks for the whole country. Add all the Backyarders and how many do you get? That's how I got 500. Count them and prove me wrong. I would be very happy to find out that my conservative estimate is wrong, but I really don't think so, at least not by more than a 100 birds.
If you want to talk about white rocks, I would triple or quadruple that number (~2000?), but not for Wyandottes. Just look at the big shows as your benchmark. In any given region of the country, what is the turnout of each variety? Look at the Ohio National, this year at Crossroads, etc. I bet there will barely be 200 Large Wyandottes entered and those will be from a very large cross-section of the Midwest and South. At the same show there will probably be 200 white rocks without adding in the other varieties.
maybe we should go back and ask Jake Levi what he means by hertiage? then we answer the question more appropriately.
Except that the question was on the numbers of heritage wyandottes. Regardless of which definition of "heritage" you use, hatchery birds are not heritage birds. So, yes, the overall number of birds representing the breed/variety as a whole is much much higher, but if you remove hatchery birds from that equation you are left with a lot less.
ETA: I don't have any idea of the numbers, or of the definition of "heritage" that was intended in the original question, just wanted to throw out that while those numbers seem low they may not be so far under the actual numbers as they may seem at first glance. Especially depending on how strict your definition of heritage is.
Two points:
One: I am counting breeding birds. I will hatch several hundred chicks this year. None of them will count until they can reproduce their genetics (of which most of them never will...yummy). Only actual adult birds of some show quality are what I am counting.
When I start counting breeders, I am talking about breeders of birds that are not hatchery quality, as was just mentioned. I can think of only 3-4 breeders of white Wyandottes in the country that have any quantity of breeders. Jon has about 50 and Larry Dye has probably about the same or a few more. Maybe Jesse Paul has some number but I have no idea how many. There are a couple people advertising White chicks in the Press. How many do they have? If you have a trio, does that really count? I guess, but that's why I bumped up my estimates. Each of the people I mentioned has spent years selling trios and pairs and boxes of chicks. But how many people have kept an actual breeding flock?
Let me give you a personal example: For about 5 years I hatched and sold adult Partridge Wyandottes all over the place. Of the actual people I sold to, I can not think of any that has ever shown me a flock raised out my birds. Shawn Hensley used to but he sold out last summer. Most of those people have about 2-3 pair still, but none has an actual breeder flock of 10-20 hens and 3-4 excellent males or more. They just keep calling and asking for more birds to keep their limited flocks alive.
So how many BYCers out there have 3-5 White Wyandottes that could, by any definition, be considered heritage? That is the key question, but my gut feeling is that the answer is relatively few. I bet there aren't 200 Whites in actual breeding flocks for the whole country. Add all the Backyarders and how many do you get? That's how I got 500. Count them and prove me wrong. I would be very happy to find out that my conservative estimate is wrong, but I really don't think so, at least not by more than a 100 birds.
If you want to talk about white rocks, I would triple or quadruple that number (~2000?), but not for Wyandottes. Just look at the big shows as your benchmark. In any given region of the country, what is the turnout of each variety? Look at the Ohio National, this year at Crossroads, etc. I bet there will barely be 200 Large Wyandottes entered and those will be from a very large cross-section of the Midwest and South. At the same show there will probably be 200 white rocks without adding in the other varieties.
maybe we should go back and ask Jake Levi what he means by hertiage? then we answer the question more appropriately.
