There are shows, and then there are shows...

[Germaine_11.20]

 

[Msbear]

I, too, grew up on a farm where pets were pets and livestock was livestock until my dad befriended a steer that stared at him all the time. We named him "Steaky" It was a joke because we planned to eat him... Then dad said he stared at him from down in the ring at the sale.. so dad bought his own steer

He eventually went to the neighbors farm where he was taken care of there. We ate good all Winter

Then a dog got to a broody hen and all of her chicks. We found one chick hiding under a bush. His name was Baby and was my fist pet. He needed to be warmed so I took him to school with me and held him in the front pouch of my sweatshirt during class (small school) I was 8 and he was my best bud. I took him everywhere and yes, he did go in the house. My mom would scream and chase him away but he always came back til I could sneak him in. He even waited for me at the end of our farm lane for the school bus to drop me off in the afternoon. I still remember him rushing up to crowd me like he was so mad I had left him all day.

The sad thing is that he was never excepted by the other chickens and was always picked on even by the hens.

I can understand both sides. I think what is sad is how those folks who have a few silkies that do live in their house and do wear diapers will be so nasty about how I can take my chicken to a show and "risk disease" and stress it out and other negative comments like that without taking into consideration that that is why I have my birds... not to live its life as a dog like yours.

Things haven't changed too much

eta: I do cull my birds and will send them packing if they don't measure up. I love them all and think they are beautiful but I need the room.

Everyone here loves poultry.. some just love them for different reasons

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
My chickens are no different than any other livestock I have...
Yes you feel good when your bird wins at the show but if that bird doesn't perform well at the shows and cant be used in a breeding pen then that bird isnt good but for a good Sunday dinner.
I'm sorry but that is what I think. Feed cost way too much to feed that bird for nothing but to walk around the yard...

Chris

 

[smithzoo100]

OMG!! I can NOT read fast enough to catch up to this thread & take care of our storm-battered place.... Okay, just real quick (sorry to go without the quotes), the Show Quality portion of this thread has me spinning!! LOL!! It is hard enough to determine if pups are going to make the grade as babies, but chicks?!? Buyer beware and do your research like many of you have said!! You folks are going to get me just riled enough to start showing chickens

Pathfinder, you are a very bad/good influence!!

Btw, I DID join the Buckeye thread and Yahoo group at your suggestion (originally off your website actually)!! Thanks to both you and Professional for suggestions on who to go to for Buckeyes. I am still working on that....

Quote:
This is my goal. I don't show nor do I want to, but I am trying to raise birds that meet the SOP. I doubt I live long enough to have a SOP for my Marans, but the others I'll keep breeding and culling and hopefully do justice for the breeds I've chosen to raise.

I'm right with you there, Katy!! With many of my animal projects, I work at it to do justice to the particular breed that I have chosen to raise just like you said by learning the standard as best as possible and referring to it often when making breeding decisions as well as keeping that in mind when I am evaluating my stock (translate that to picking everyone apart!!). I have a couple friends that also breed the animals that I do and we take turns going over one another's stock, discussing this, making suggestions, combining efforts to compliment faults, and in general, giving another good eye and opinion to one another without being sensitive to the discussion. It has been very helpful to us and we tend to compliment one another with our differing backgrounds and preferences.

As for the pet vs livestock discussion...I look at them as both! I was raised as a pet person and have learned to become a good "stockman/woman?", but it comes from the love of my animals and the distrust of our food supply as far as safety and how the animals are treated, not to mention the lack of biodiversity in our grocery stores. As a result, I may even end up learning to process my own animals which has the rest of my family in shock, but I want it done right and no one here will do birds. I am running out of options, but that is a whole 'nother discussion. Just remember that some of us pet people actually lobby for sensible laws and some of us are doing what we can to help preserve biodiversity on our own little patches of earth as well as educate those of us around us.

Okay, off my soap box (sorry) and back outside....

 

[Katy]

Quote:
I do treat mine as livestock, just as I treat my cattle as livestock. I do not show nor do I have any plans to. I don't name any of my birds either. Trying to breed them to the SOP is no different than trying to have the best bulls for our cow herd......better performance means more income from them when I sell them.

 

[cgmccary]

Hmmmm, this thread has taken a strange turn. Threads just veer off like a conversation.

ON SHOWING: I showed my birds in a big APA/ABA show for a number of reasons: I wanted to see if I were on the right track in my breeding & get a gauge on how my Buckeyes measured up; also, I wanted the experience of showing at a big show & I wanted Buckeyes to be seen at the show & have exposure because I love the breed so much and there is not so many of them around. If my birds did well, I knew that I was not seeing them wrong & not reading something in the SOP in some screwed up way. If my Buckeyes did poorly, I could try and find out why & get some guidance, fix it vs. if my Buckeyes did poorly, though I would have been disappointed in my lack of ability to read & apply the SOP, I would have sought to learn something. Either way, it would have all been for the good (and I kept an open attitude about it)--

It is sort of like a real ugly guy who looks at himself in the mirror and sees his reflection, as a "handsome guy." A big show was my way of finding out if I was that ugly guy. I didn't want the beauty to be in the eye of the beholder, me. The show was enjoyment for me too. I got to meet some of the people I had corresponded with & got to talk about my birds to other interested poultry people. We had our first Buckeye club meeting (so another reason I went). My "showing" had nothing to do with wanting to make money or selling anything or impressing you. I have sold some, did sell some -- not my motivation though. Certainly, I understand wanting to recoup some expenditures (as I like to do sometimes); I've also given a lot away for free (eggs & birds). Of course, all shows are not equal . . a win at the county fair or 4-H show does not compare with a win at Lucasville or the Ohio National or the Poultry Congress, etc. & you are not going to find out at the county fair show whether or not you are that ugly guy. I'm sorry for those who win with a sub-standard bird & go away thinking they have something special and they simply don't. As with other walks of life though, wouldn't you agree, some people have it & others don't (upstairs)?

ON LIVESTOCK VS. PETS: My dogs and cats are my "pets" and heck, well, they are "family" to me. I have a live & let live attitude so whatever your reason for keeping chickens whether it be solely to feed your family with meat & eggs (livestock) or just eggs or for pets only or for entertainment (i.e. "chicken watching"), and/or to teach your children to keep and maintain livestock (poultry people seem to have some of the best kids around so they're doing something right!)-- or for the joy of showing---or a combination of reasons, whatever your reason or justification, there is no right or wrong answer here -- IMHO, it is all permissible & good. Just deal honestly and fairly.

So, I don't really consider my chickens "pets." I don't really consider my chickens "livestock" either. I treat them as neither. I feel it is my responsibility to provide any animal in my care with a good life. In a sense, an animal in your care & control, you are essentially their god. You can make a heaven or hell for that animal's life. For me, they are a hobby (a hobby with benefits-- eggs & some real chicken meat for dinner), but they are also living creatures. I enjoy having chickens, enjoy giving them a good life & I keep them for many reasons & none of those reasons are hidden from me as one poster insinuated. Good thread. sorry if there are typos.

 

[iluvmychicks]

Oh gosh, that's one of those terms that is SO overused at this point that it's almost devoid of meaning. It ties back into this thread, as there are shows, and then there are shows, you know? Personally, I don't feel a bird can be considered "show quality" until it has reached a certain level of maturity so that it can be evaluated. I think the idea of "show quality chicks" is worthless. There's no guarantee that any chick will mature to be a show quality bird. You can purchase chicks or hatching eggs from show quality parents, certainly. But no chick or hatching egg can be considered show quality, IMO. And there's no guarantee that two SQ birds will throw all SQ offspring, very unlikely in fact. There are always going to be some birds that have to be culled, that's the nature of the beast.

So basically, I feel it's one of those terms that gets slung around a lot, and one has to do one's homework before accepting that a SQ bird really is SQ. If I'm considering buying birds from someone, I want to see pictures. If they're young birds, I want to see the parents. I also like to see show results from breeders (which reminds me I need to update our website, heh heh), and I want to see rather consistent placements. Of course we all have our off days/weeks/months when showing, but someone who places regularly and has done so for a while is likely someone who can claim SQ birds. And I'm not talking county fairs here, I'm talking sanctioned APA/ABA shows. Wins from a county fair can't be considered for SQ in my book, unless the birds in question also win at a sanctioned show, ideally more than once. But that's just me, and I'm picky...



Just how I see things.

Just as I predicted we see things very much the same I acutally can't stand those two words anymore, for the simple fact many times it's so abused. It really holds no value for me...at all. That's why it's so important for potential buyers to do their homework before EVER buying from someone. Lot's of scammers out there, just waiting to suck you in with the sales pitch. How about those "show quality" eggs?? Gotta love those....how in the world could you ever predict the offspring will be show quality until like you said they mature and can be evaluated, it's rediculous to say the least. If anyone get's anything out of this thread I hope they learn to do their homework, buy ONLY from reputable breeders who know their breed, study the SOP, and go to shows, see what winning birds look like, talk to breeders, talk to judges.....trust me, I've never met a person at a show that wasn't willing to "talk chickens" they are passionate about what they do and love to share, it's a wealth of information. Trust me, it will save you lots of heartache and cash!! This has been a good thread with a lot of good information

Shari​

 

[roboboy]

I believe the reason for shows and "shows" is very simple and rests mostly on one group of people; the judges. The Standard is also partly to blame with its confusing descriptions and horrible examples, but judges themselves are the biggest difference between shows and "shows."

There is no such thing as an impartial judge, they will all have their favorite breeds and preferred attributes that make up those breeds. Double shows are great examples where two equally qualified judges can go though a hall of 1,000 + birds and come up with different class champions. If they all judge according to standard this should not happen as the better birds should be obvious for their lack of faults. I am not saying that all judges would disagree on all birds, but that it does happen and because someone has been ill informed about a certain breed standard and could not fully judge all the birds to their variation from the standard and adequately place the birds accordingly.

If all judges could be as impartial as possible and as ruthless as possible (disqualifying any birds that are not standard breeds and marking down any birds not worthy of merit) we could easily fix the problem of "shows." Also I think that the Standard needs to be better written to clarify any questionable descriptions, especially in color because your idea of light chestnut is probably different then someone else's idea of what that color is. I cannont testify as to the degree in which judges are judged when applying for license, but the more rigorous the better would be my guess.

These changes would also remove the need for "pet" quality or show quality as only birds that are according to standard would pass ultimately killing off any birds that are below par for either the show room and the breeding coop.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

I guess I'm an oddball.

I can see both mentalities. I have my show birds, layers and my pets. The "pets" are the ones who have personalities that stand out. The others? Not at all. They can pass once their use is up. The ones that show a personality difference stay and pass their genes on to the laying flock.

Then I have my showbirds that MUST have a friendly attitude. A bad attitude earns a spot in the pot.

 

[poltroon]

Quote:
I am a novice at chickens, but I have done other kinds of judging, and even with a rigorous standard, there will always be honest disagreements about which fault is worse - this one has a lovely shape but a slightly off color, this one has perfect color but is a little long in the back. Judges will rely on their own experience about which fault is more troublesome. Even differences in lighting or in the bird's behavior can change how each one is perceived to be meeting the standard.

On the example of the "Reserve National Champion" that shouldn't have been, it's possible that the exhibitor knows and is misleading people... but it's also possible that the exhibitor honestly has no idea that the judge found her bird to be of poor quality and used it because there was nothing better.