THey are all DEAD... and it was my own dog

[Hound]

Quote:
She doesn't know she did wrong, what she did isn't wrong but instinct to a dog. All she knows is you're mad at her, so she's afraid of you. She's not 'sucking up' to your husband, he didn't punish her so she isn't fearful of him. It would be a lot kinder for all involved to build a secure enclosure for the birds or a fenced dog yard to keep predator and prey separate.

 

[fancbrd4me02]

Let me suggest a more effective technique for communicating with your dog that chickens are off limits. First, get a clicker from a pet store. It costs a dollar, it is an item that makes a loud click when you press it. Then get a high value treat for your dog, something irresistable, like bacon or freeze dried liver (expensive, but can be broken into tiny bits and dogs love it). Then, work with your dog on leash within sight and sound of the pen of chickens. At no point yell or dominate the dog. Use firm assertive tone of voice for commands, happy voice for praise. The goal is to communicate your desire for her behavior, which is:"Don't look at, go after, bother chickens" to your dog. Right now the dog knows that dead chickens makes you angry at her, that's it. So, what you do is get your husband at first (right now she won't react well around you for this training to be effective until she has a session with someone who hasn't disciplined her in the chicken area. Later you can do this same training, after she "gets the idea".)

Have your husband train her on lead. At the very second the dog does what you want, shove a treat in its mouth. (Click and treat at the same time, at the VERY second the dog does right, and also say something verbal like "Yes!" as you click and treat. Later the click and treat will be replaced with your verbal praise. It is incredibly important that the click, verbal reenforcement and the treat are delivered to the dog at the second the approved behavior happens. If you are even a second too long giving the reward, the dog will be confused as to what you approve of. Your dog will think, is it me looking at her or me eating the treat she likes? Or is it when I looked over there? Dogs live in the moment, so your training awards must be immediate, especially when the dog is just learning new concepts. Don't be slow and reward the dog for the wrong behavior, reward the dog the second it does right.

Put the dog in a sit . Take the treat in front of your dogs nose, and raise it upwards towards your eyes saying "watch me!" as soon as the treat gets to your eye level (Don't say watch me at the start of this, say it when the treat is at your eye level), if the dog's gaze gets to your eyes at that point, (your eyes meet) say "yes!" and treat and click, very fast/immediately. Practice this until she becomes perfect at it, it won't take long.

After this, when the dog is becoming distracted or focusing on something else (like chickens) you can say "watch me!" to get the dog focused on you. The principals of clicker training can be used to teach the dog just about anything, sit,down, heels,stay, etc. If your dog does not know those commands already, use the clicker technique to teach them to her. You can't expect the dog to learn complicated stuff (like stay away from the chickens) if you don't have the foundation skills in place. I suggest that if you can you either buy or rent (from a library) a DVD on clicker training or enroll in a basic obedience course. It is a fantastic way to work with your dog and develop communication between the 2 of you.

Here is a great site that gives you a basic introduction on how this training works:
http://www.dogsindia.com/clicker_training_for_dogs.htm

 

[rhodewarrior]

@ fancbrd4me02, that is excellent advice! My mom was a trainer for many years, and when I read your post, it sounded just like something she would say!

What part of SD are you in? We are slumming it out in East County...lol


@ Dar, a good way to think of how your dog's brain works, its like pictures. They think in snapshots. The bird killing was just one of them. There could have been fifty more inbetween the killing and you punishing her. She could totally be thinking that she is being punished for her greeting you, or you walking outside. Just be patient and work with her every day until she starts getting distracted. Trust me, I speak from experience. Our dog is getting better, but she is a work in progress. Luckilly, she hasn't got our hens (had a close call), but she has taken out several opossums. Hang in there.

 

[Dar]

Quote:
Please do not make the mistake of thinking she "understands" that she "did wrong" here. What she understands is that dead chickens=you becoming one of the scariest creatures on Earth. Whether that translates into her no longer desiring to kill them once the trauma of today wears off remains to be seen. Usually it does not, it simply means they become more sneaky about doing whatever "bad" thing you have tried to scare them off of (ie, she's gonna try to wait till you're not around to try it again). Anthropomorphizing dogs and falling for the belief that their fear reactions means they now know better leads us to let down our guard and give them the opportunity to make the same mistake again.

dont misunderstand... I do not trust her and will not trust her... at 9am when the pet store opens she is going to be fitted with a muzzle....

she will no longer have free run of the yard she will le leashed and muzzled while outside. My chickens will not loose their free ranging privilege because of the dogs actions. She will however loose her freedom

thanks for the advice fancbrd4me02 but I have other training methods for her... clickers dont work for all dogs and she is one of them (and no I am not beating the crap outta her) I am just not going to explain it here.. not enough time to. She has more then basic training.. she was in training for a therapy dog. She was disqualified though last month because she startles with strange noises and then starts to bark

rhodewarrior.... she did not greet me.... we snuck up on her with a bird in her mouth... there were no in between snapshots

please dont misunderstand anything.... I will not be mistreating the dog i am strongly against that... when I say she will be on a lead while outside... thats when she cant be 100% supervised. I have a clothes line that i no longer use and i have an Flexi lead (retracting leash) attached to it... so not only will she have the length of the clothes line, 100' + the 26' of the flexi so she is in no way restricted in her movement... but she cant reach the coop and the muzzle if incase the chickens get to close then she wont be able to actually harm them.

 

[rhodewarrior]

Doh! I 've been there catching them in the act, that's tough. Especially when it involves rounding up six little baby opossums, but that one was just a close call. I would never assume someone was going to mistreat their dog unless I witnessed the way they treated their dog or if they flat out said it. Its one thing to want to beat the tar out of them, its another thing to follow through on it. It sounds like you have a plan, drastic acts sometimes take drastic measures. I hope it all goes well for you, hang in there...

 

[iajewel]

You do know a muzzel won't work.. right?

 

[Germaine_11.20]

I am sorry! I think you have the right plan, if you want to keep her.

I know my dog will kill the chickens if I don't keep her supervised while I am out there. It is in their blood. I have tried alot of different methods and the best method is chaining them up when you don't want to let them run free.

I have several places with chains that she can go so she isn't always at the same spot. When the chickens are housed she is allowed off with supervision only. Other than that she is kenneled or chained or in the house with me.

I also use the muzzle but more to stop the excessive barking at the birds. She knows when I muzzle her she is in trouble.

 

[Rohnasmom]

How awful, my heart goes out to you. Ours can be a nuisance in some instances, but they are predators. So must be considered untrustworthy.

 

[RoninComputing]

As IAJEWEL said... a muzzle will not stop a dog killing a chiaken. They can kill a bird with their paws alone.
There needs to be some physical barrier between the dog & chickens that BOTH of them cannot cross.
Chickens have been known to walk up to a restrained dog and curiosity killed the chicken.

 

[iajewel]

Years ago I had given my son a dog for his birthday. It was a breed he really wanted and wanted to show. After loosing many birds, we tied the dog up long enough to go potty then she came back into the house. The second time she was left on a chain, there were 18 dead birds in her area. Im sorry but the only thing you can do is shoot the dog, or give her to someone in town. You have to be honest and not give someone who has or may get chickens your problem. Some dogs are not ment to live in the country.
I live in a small (4 block) town where people move thinking they now live in the country ( NO they don't.. they live in the 4 blocks we call town) and can now let their dogs run. I have the only farm in town, 30 acers on the boarder of the town. Guess where all these now free dogs go? yup.. and guess what happens next.. I shoot them, take the dog and the dead birds to the owners and I hear the same thing every time. My dog never left my property.. well if it didn't leave.. then where was it when I shot it? (yes I try and work things out with the owners first)
My point is.. you can't break them of it. Chaining up or muzzels won't work. When people live in the country they need to think about the breed of dog they are brining home. Labs and things are bird dogs.. so you can't have chickens and a hunting dog.. its common sence. If you have cattle or horses and your herding dog chases your horse through a fence its not the dogs fault.. who was the moron that brought home a herding dog?
There is a long list of breeds I will not allow on the farm. When people come to pick up cattle or visit I do not allow thier dogs to get out of the car/truck. They always tell me thier dog is good and it never fails.. it takes off after something.. every time.. so I just don't allow it anymore. Period.
Now days I have a Standard poodle that guards my flock and helps herd my bulls. My Toy poodle herds the bison and stays with my baby chicks or bunnies. I also how Flemish Giant rabbits. The system works well enough that Lucy our Dutch pet rabbit lives freely in the yard with no threat of fox or other varmints. Its all about finding the right breed for you. I love my dogs as pets. In the years I have had them they have never.. and I do mean never been away from me. They have also spent many a cold rainy night, or even a blizzard or two in the chicken yard. They work for their food. Even then my dogs do help themselves to eggs. I allow it. I see it as fair payment for a job well done. They only do it when they have done something they think is treat worthy. I have lost a days worth of eggs to my dogs however.. again.. its a fair trade. If you see your dog killing your birds as a fair trade.. then thats fine.. if you don't.. then think about how much you are willing to loose before you make the choice you will eventually have to make.
then think about the next breed you will bring home and raise that new pup with manors and with chickens.

Good luck.