Thin shelled eggs

[critterkeeper25]

We have a flock of 17 hens that are 9 months old. We feed layer feed and supplement with oyster shell, scratch grains and collards or some other leafy green veggie. I have noticed an occasional cracked and sometimes broken thin shelled egg in the nest boxes. I don't know who is laying them. We also have some eggs that have lumpy calcium deposits on them. So my question is, if the egg that has the thin shell is due to lack of calcium, how do I supplement with calcium without overloading the hens that are laying the eggs with the calcium deposits on them? I am afraid that if I don't do something about the thin shells, my hen will end up with egg yolk peritonitis or some other infection from getting torn up by broken shell.

Any suggestions?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

It could be temporary, depending on extent of damage, if any.
Calcium isn't the only nutrient important in shell quality. Phosphorus, vitamin D3 and to some extent magnesium are also important but they must be at the correct ratio.
Many people feed layer to their whole adult flocks and claim they don't have problems. But then a bird dies and they don't know why. They don't get a necropsy and shrug their shoulders. If the problem is kidney damage and gout, they don't show illness, they just die. With 2 kidneys and 3 divisions each, there can be significant damage and they'll function well with 2 functioning divisions.

http://ps.oxfordjournals.org/content/64/12/2300.abstract
http://nhjy.hzau.edu.cn/kech/synkx/dong/2bao/UrolithiasisChina.pdf
http://ps.oxfordjournals.org/content/67/12/1694.abstract

Egg farms don't have an issue with this. Their birds are all the same age, photostimulated to commence lay at the same time, they switch them to 4% calcium and they butcher them all 18-24 months later.

 

[Chris King]

Many people feed layer to their whole adult flocks and claim they don't have problems. But then a bird dies and they don't know why. They don't get a necropsy and shrug their shoulders. If the problem is kidney damage and gout, they don't show illness, they just die. With 2 kidneys and 3 divisions each, there can be significant damage and they'll function well with 2 functioning divisions.

http://ps.oxfordjournals.org/content/64/12/2300.abstract
http://nhjy.hzau.edu.cn/kech/synkx/dong/2bao/UrolithiasisChina.pdf
http://ps.oxfordjournals.org/content/67/12/1694.abstract


With the utmost respect to this poster for referencing scientific studies (kudos!), the devil's in the details. These experimental studies were examining diets that were deliberately manipulated to test the limits of gross mineral imbalances; for example, a high-calcium, low-phosphorus diet.

Grains are naturally high in phosphorus and low in calcium, so grain-based feeds or feeds in which some sort of grain is listed in the first 2 or 3 ingredients, are the opposite of that particular experimental ration. In fact, grain-based feeds need to be supplemented with a source of calcium, or they can cause calcium deficiency.

Scientific studies are important for our understanding of species-specific physiology and pathology. However, not every finding is directly applicable to real-life situations. For example, a backyard hen fed a well-formulated commercial layer ration as the basis of her diet would be very unlikely to find herself in such a situation (too much calcium, too little phosphorus for her needs).

In my considered opinion, once a backyard hen has started laying, it's probably best to continue to feed her a layer ration for the rest of her working life, even when she's temporarily off the lay. We have no way of knowing how much calcium and phosphorus she's taken from her bone stores during her laying season, so for the short time she's molting and laying little or nothing, it shouldn't hurt for her to remain on a layer ration, and it may be of some benefit if it replenishes her bone mineral stores.

I think the more important nutrient during a molt is protein, because the hen needs to produce a lot of feathers in a fairly short space of time. (At least, I want her to, which is not quite the same thing There, too, the layer ration should fit the bill, although if the flockmaster has youngsters as well and some grower ration on hand, that might be an even better option for a molting hen - although it, too, will contain supplemental calcium.

Just another perspective to consider.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

My suggestion is - you don't. Calcium is only one element of the egg shell mystery. Phosphorus and vitamin D3 are equally important but it's the ratio that works.

The oyster shell needs to be in a separate container and for the time being cut out the scratch grains. Layer feed is formulated as a complete feed and no other supplementation is necessary. Things should straighten out in time.

http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/li...eggs-and-your-small-flock-of-laying-hens.html

http://www.alltech.com/sites/default/files/alltech-egg-shell-quality-poster.pdf

ETA
here's another good one

http://www.nutrecocanada.com/docs/s...-formation-and-eggshell-quality-in-layers.pdf

 

[spies04]

Why do you keep the oyster shells separate? To see how much they are eating?

Just wondering for my own knowledge. thanks!

 

[critterkeeper25]

Thank you for your reply. I visited the sites that you recommended. We feed free choice oyster shell and free choice insoluable granite. We also feed TSC layer feed.. I'm not sure of it's phosphorus to calcium ratio. Would you know a link that would recommend specific levels of calcium and phosphorus that should be fed to chickens? I guess it is also possible that the hen has a defective gland? I also read that the granite may not be the best thing to feed for grit. What do most people feed? The granite that my husband bought for them is reddish in color and the deposits that form on some of the eggs are the same color. Could the deposits be from the granite?

 

[critterkeeper25]

I think that it is so that the hens consume it only when they need it. If it is mixed into the feed they may consume more than they need.

 

[spies04]

Thank you! OK because I am always making sure I stay on top of my game, what would be the outcome if they consume too much? I was not aware that there could be other challenges. I do use it as needed, but do not want to feed too much.

Thank you for the info - this is why I love this site!

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Why do you keep the oyster shells separate? To see how much they are eating?

Just wondering for my own knowledge. thanks!

Otherwise, they have no choice as to how much they consume.
They have to choose. Mixing it could easily drive the percentage to 10 % or more. That will kill them in short order.

 

[spies04]

Thank you!! This helps tremendously!