Thinking about a dog...any ideas?

[nikki1]

Have you considered:

standard poodle-- a light wt dog and not like the toys at all. A real working dog class. I grew up with a black standard poodle named Charlie. He lived to be 17, and he was like my big brother. On the social ladder, there was no doubt he outranked me!
Bernese mountain dog--very pretty, med-large in size; becoming more popular. Our family admired those dogs! We'd have gotten one, but they wouldn't fit through the doggie door. :0) Saw LOTS of them in the obedience ring.

Not akc approved yet is the maremma-- a smaller version of the big white sheep guard dogs; this is an Italien dog and much smaller; Heavy coat but doesn't need a lot of care. Maremmas are a working dog.

Spaniels--some are better than others, but fall into the retreiver family just a smaller package. So they are family friendly. We had a champion English Cocker and one of her puppies. They were a hoot! By far the smartest dog we ever owned. Not an obedient bone in her body, but very smart! Never a dull moment with Merrie around.

I looked at each catagory of dogs to determine their job and if that groups would work for me; I eliminated the toys, the terriers, the hounds. The working dogs are bred to work with people and take orders; they are usually easy to train.

What you need to also consider is temperament testing. When I bought my first Rottie the puppy had been temperment tested by a rottie judge. I got a dog that was both brave and not fearful. A dog that is vey concerned for its well being is likely to be a fear biting, which I consider a dangerous dog only for a pro to manage. THis is why I do suggest a lab, either black or yellow; a breeder told me most chocolates have temperament problems. Off the 50 dogs on her property only 3 adults were chocolates. She was very picky. THe dog I bought from her was exactly as she described. A gem with my kids. My second sheltie I bought from a lady who would not breed a dog that didn't have at least a CDX in the obedience ring. If I could clone that dog I would in a heartbeat! Awesome temperament, very people oriented, and absolutely lived to please.

Have you considered going to an AKC sanctioned show and look at he dogs; you can see a lot at once. And talk to handlers and breeders, if they have time. As a teen I did a lot of showing in the obedience and junior handling rings. That's where I fell in love with herding breeds, labs, and goldens. They did their jobs with joy. A dog show is a fun place to gather information...It also gives you some clue as to what's required as far as grooming.

I purebred dogs so I know what I am getting. I predicatability. Can this dog do the job I need done?

I took 6 months looking at breeds, talking to vets, etc. I found a breeder highly recommended by a reliable source ( my brother had bough one of her dogs) and I bought a lab. But he was too friendly and didn't protect my house. I bought a rottie puppy who was guarding the car at 15 weeks old. Well the lab just needed a little more time to grow up and the protection mode did develop. I let my kids play with the Lab, but not the ROtties. As my kids learned on the lab, and got taller than the dogs I trained them how to handle the rotties. THey now have a good handle on managing the rotties. ( Very hard to win the respect of a rottie.) Labs are very easy dogs. With kids around, easy is probably best, but I've met a lot of really sweet rotties. Not for our family right now, but great dogs that get a bad rap.

Boy, it's fun having dog conversations with folks that know dogs! As a teen all the other girls were into clothes and makeup and boys, but I was all about dogs, gardening, and science. I bet I had a lot more fun and a lot less heartache! Thanks so much for everyone's input. Keep it coming! I'm trying to get ideas for myself and educate my husband. Give the boy lots to read!

--Nikki

 

[Arielle]

To give good, professional breeders their due (sorry for the quick thread hijack!) there are plenty of people who breed dogs because they love them and love a specific breed, just the way there are many, many fabulous poultry breeders who are constantly attempting to improve their chosen breed(s). To those breeders, my hat is off

But yeah, we don't eat dogs, so it's not quite equivalent to chickens -- with them, we can always eat the unintended mutts. With cast-off or unwanted dogs, their endings are seldom as quick or humane.

Sorry! Touched on a sore point with me. Let us know when you find your new family member, Nikki!

I think adoptions can be a great way to get a good dog--one of my first labs I adopted from a family over run with dogs (long story) and I got a very good, child friendly dog.

I plan to go to the rescues for my next dog. When I first tried, I was required to have a fenced in yard to get one! A leash and walking the dog was not enough. Well, with 4 dogs, a fenced yard really saves time walking the dogs and they can exercise all they want, all day and all night too. WIth the hot weather my rotties are staying outof the house. Of course with little chicke needing a heat lamp my house IS about 80 degrees.
THe shelters often temper test the dogs to help get them placed in the right home. Such a dog may need extra work to get him back on the track of good behavior but I know my dog trainers always pointed out those people attending with rescued dogs. Made me feel like crud with my papered dogs, but I understood her point, and totally respect it.

This was the class I was attending, when the toy dog bit the owner, right in class!!! THe owner had spoken up in class weeks before, not understanding her dogs growling at her husband when he would get on their bed. I liked that the trainers worked with her, explaining how to re=establish dominance with this dog; one week later, the bite. THe dog was on the ground with belly up and the woman put her face down into the dogs face. Snap. It takes time and persistence to change behaviors; know what it takes to be top dog. like:

control the food--put down bowl and take it away, repeatedly. my dogs had to sit and wait until the bowl was down, then I realeased them all at the same time. Some times I picked up bowls and rearranged just to make them sit longer.

I go thru the door first, dog last

I get the good seat in the house. My rottie growled at me one day while I sat down next to her on the couch as a puppy. I know I had to deal with it pronto. But I was scared. I had been bitten by another dog, and it left a fear of being bitten again. ANd rotties have particularly strong jaws. I decided to not touch the dog but pull the couch cushion off the couch, and there by making the dog fall off the couch, nicely, and making my point. NEVER growled at me again.

THe list is very long, of day to day things that make people #1.

I know often show dogs are not obedience trained, but I really liked giving a command to my rottie girl and she would comply instantly to some 35 commands. GREAT,GREAT DOG. Or should I say Bit__ . I did a few shows with her, great way to force mingling and socializing which rotties are not so good at.

I think you are well on your way to finding a good dog. I saw many on the AKC list that I did not know. Training and creating a bond of affection and dominance goes a long way.

Good luck

 

[Reurra]

Quote: Not everyone is lucky to find "the right dog". Ive adopted my last 2 dogs from a shelter. The first one bit my son in the face the 3rd day we had him. They second one bit me on the arm within the first week. A good way to get a rescue dog is to get a very young one or a puppy. Shelters will not always come forward with actual animal issues. I worked for the Humane Society and there were dogs adopted to people who were unaware of the issues with that animal. They liked it and the shelter was strapped for cash feeding hungry tummies that they allowed the adoption. I would say, as a guess in my time working there, that 10% of the animals that were adopted were returned due to aggressive, destructive behavior or other reasons. If you do decidd to adopt an adult dog, visit it frequently. Let it get to know you while it is at the shelter. Ask them to let you take it out on walks and introduce it to different personal items. Dont take home a shelter animal unless it is well aquainted with you or you know all its issues up front.

Pure breed dogs can have thier issues. As a kid I went with my family to pick out a new dog after our doberman had died. Gretchen, our doberman was 1/4 lab but the red dobie. She had the even friendly temperment of a lab, but the smarts and loyalty of a doberman. She lived 10 years. After she died we went to get another dog, a "cull" from a batch of long haired chihuahua because he had floppy ears like a papillion. He was a smart dog and very friendly. He lived 15 years. He was never fixed. After he died my Dad got lonely for another couch companion and he went to go get another chihuahua. This time he went to a breeder. All the ones that he looked at were really dumb and drooled like mental patients on drugs. One even pooped all over my Dad when he went to pick it up. These were pure bred dogs, but horrible personalities. Finally, he was shown one that was not standard, he was a "cull" but he came from the favorite dam and sire of the breeder. He was too big to be a show dog or any good for breeding, so she offered to sell him cheap. He was smart, silly and really loving. My Mom has him to this day. He is a good dog.

The root of the matter is what you want in a dog. How much time you are willing to spend and how much patience you have for errant behaviors. I recommend you read the books by John Grogan called Marley and Me. he has a couple and there is a movie too. He gets himself a dog that is pure bred and the thing runs amok. However, they keep with the dog, and though not all the problems are solved, they were willing to work thier lives around the dog instead of expecting the dog to change when in actuality it was just incapable of doing so. Dogs dont have the reasoning power of people, they just do what feels good to them. And in the end, if it feels good to obey, then they will do it, no matter the parentage. But be careful, some breeds are meant to work, and that means lots of work for you.

 

[Arielle]

While I agree with much of what you have to say, this statement is misleading and over simplified. Perhaps a few specifics. "But be careful, some breeds are meant to work, and that means lots of work for you."

A working dog is simply a term used to separate the types of dogs in the AKC divisions. IT really doesn't tell about the dogs activity level. My lab was a slug; another was not. BOth were pure labs. My rotties were ever vigilent, with an eye opening to check when I walked by. One is highly vigilent and the other will hang back and let brother do the work.

A working dog also is inclined to be a dog that takes commands because that is the root of his job. A sheep dog ( not the guarding type), roties, labs,, retreivers, spaniels, all the working dogs that work closely with people must respect a command to do his job and that tendency gets bred into the dog. Or rather disobedience and defiance is bred out. THe terriers function more independently and are basically designed to hunt down and kill vermin. A necessary job on many farms long ago. Taking direction from an owner was not required for this job; so terriers are not noted as easy to train; there are exceptions, but they are not the rule. Working dogs are more obedient. But it doesn't tell you their need for activity. ALL dogs need to work and be given exercise; some more than others. Collies are noted as high energy dogs, certainly fits the job of needing to manouver sheep for hours at a time. Others loaf around. A great Pyranese may spend much time lying around unless he feels the need to cruise his territory to keep out predators.

Perhaps you mean, the collies and other high energy dogs that do need a release of all that energy. I remember a family keeping their dog tied up in the house because it was a high energy bouncy dog that the parents didn't like to deal with. I felt sad for a dog constantly bouncing up and down on a 3 foot leash. Very sad. THis dog needed to run and have the space to do it in.

Many factors to consider.

 

[Reurra]

While I agree with much of what you have to say, this statement is misleading and over simplified. Perhaps a few specifics. "But be careful, some breeds are meant to work, and that means lots of work for you."



Perhaps you mean, the collies and other high energy dogs that do need a release of all that energy. I remember a family keeping their dog tied up in the house because it was a high energy bouncy dog that the parents didn't like to deal with. I felt sad for a dog constantly bouncing up and down on a 3 foot leash. Very sad. THis dog needed to run and have the space to do it in.

Many factors to consider.

Thank you for catching that. My comment was to make aware that many working breeds can often have high energy levels. Some lines are still pushed to bring out that desire to work while some lines of the same breed have bred out the more docile trait. If the dog is high energy and is to be confined most of its life, it could be a problem. A very serious one. Some are destructive and some become hostile. Working dogs are known for thier smarts and sometimes will get into mischief when left alone. If they get bored they will just about do anything they can to keep busy.

The trick is with pure breeds is to find a very reputable breeder, not someone just breeding to make a buck (they get a girl and a boy and start pumping out pups at $500 a pop), but someone who has selectively considered health, personality and other factors before producing pups.

Ive known a lot of people who think a dog is really pretty, like a blue healer, but after they get it, it nips at thier heels and wants to play constantly and it wears them out, before long they lose interest in the animal and it either gets tied outside or given away.

 

[JohnsonHomested]

I like the Australian Shepherd idea. Not to be confused with the Australian Cattledog (aka Blue Heeler). The Cattledogs are great but I've always known them to be too high-strung if they aren't on a ranch working. I had an Australian Shepherd mix growing up and she was a sweetheart. She got along with our cat so I think one could be trained to treat chickens appropriately. A good friend has a purebred and loves her.

I have three large breed mixes now. I like the security they provide. My German Shepherd was supposed to be a pure bred but I didn't go through a good breeder as suggested. She wants nothing more than to play with the chickens. I watch her closely when the chickens are out. She's great with kids but only tolerates my toddler (he's still learning to be gentle). She developed incontinence issues a year ago and I sometimes wonder if it wasn't from being spayed.

We adopted the neighbor's dog that kept jumping the chain link fence into our yard. She's lab/bull dog mix and the most docile dog I've ever seen. I think this has more to do with upbringing than breed characteristics. My neighbors still have her brother and they're nothing alike.

Our third dog I would not allow around our chickens when he's fully grown. I think his instincts would get the best of him. He is a lab/pit mix that we adopted at three weeks old and had to be bottle fed. His mother was killing her litter (apparently some dogs do this even if they're otherwise gentle dogs) and the owners had to find home for the pups. She had twelve pups so I guess it was too stressful. Our pup is great with my kids but still a large puppy.

I've heard that "fixing" your animal can cause problems but unfortunately the alternative is a lot of work. As a kid my Aussie would tear up the fence in an attempt to escape every time she went into heat. Male dogs will do the same thing to chase the females. Where we live city ordinance requires dogs to be fixed at six months old. If you keep a dog for breeding you have to pay an "intact" animal fee every year.

It's good that you're doing your research and taking your time. I think my wife and I did a minimal amount of research and then jumped into it too soon. It caused a few problems down the road. Good luck.

 

[Arielle]

I too prefer a fixed dog. All my males have been fixed; and that eliminates testicular cancer and trying to find that girl he can smell miles away. LOL

My Bit-- I did not spay because her mother had a bad reaction to general anesthisa and I was very concerned my girl could die on the table getting spayed. SHe had one littler of 12, great mom, all puppies lived. I grew up with spayed females; if they were an adopted show dog, spayed. After one litter, spayed.

THere are always trade offs; nothing is perfect.

Within a family there are temperament differences; as well as between breeds. I look at the dogs job to understand the basic temperament and obedience of a breed; then I try to find a good breeder, which is harder than you think. When a breeder offers the name and phone number of another breeder, take note.

WHen I bought my first rottie, her papers read like a who's who for rotties. THe father line was from multiple BOB and BOS; overall in some 32 direct ancestors, 15 had show titles and obedience titles. My girls was a brilliant problem solver that liked to please and never missed a command once she was grown up.

For one of my labs, the was a sweet boy that was loaned out to a society that bred service dogs. THen I bought him and he was fixed. Both my brother and I drove a long ways to get the right dog. WELL WORTH IT.

 

[dainerra]

http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/pdfs/pets/puppy_mills/find_responsible_dog_breeder.pdf

some good advise on how to figure out if your breeder is responsible or just a BYB in it for the $$. Honestly, any responsible breeder is going to have a lot more invested in their breeding program than they will ever get out of it. They will ask you just as many questions as you ask them, if not more.

If you go with a rescue or shelter, make sure that they temperament test their dogs. Even better is if they foster their dogs with a family. You can also look into the Paws In Prison program. They place dogs with inmate participants that train the dogs for 8 weeks. With our local program, the dogs are housebroken and have basic manners and often a lot of fun tricks. http://adc.arkansas.gov/PawsInPrison/Pages/default.aspx

Any responsible breeder (or shelter/rescue) is going to have some hoops that they want you to jump through. They may or may not have some gray areas, such as a fenced yard. Sadly, they often have "no exceptions" because they know that people lie. For every person who really does only take their dogs out on-leash, there are going to be 5 who do it for the first few weeks or until the first time the weather is bad and then they just turn the dogs loose in an unfenced area and POOF! Dog is lost or hit by a car. That is one of the reasons that it's good to get involved BEFORE you are ready for a dog. That way, the breeder/shelter/rescue that you are going to adopt from will have some background on you. They will know that you are committed to providing a good home and that you have some knowledge and background.

 

[Alphabetcoop]

I'm a firm believer in mix breeds, but I also have had many pure breeds. Before you pick a dog, please think hard about the life style you lead as well as say the "fuzziness" or temperament of a dog. Many dogs, BOTH small and large need exercise and if you can't provide that on a regular basis then you can bet that you WILL have a dog with behavior issues on you hands. I consider myself a backyard dog trainer and find this to be the biggest problem with most dogs. Remember they all have 4 legs and they really want to use them. Many large breeds require less exercise than you might think. For instance, a Great Dane is considered a rather good apartment dog; however, they don't live very long and they eat and poop a lot. The herding breeds are very smart. I have had several. Do know, that with smarts comes more entertainment on your part. Again, if you can't provide that for the dog then I would think twice about getting a herding breed. If you get a mixed breed, some of these traits will be more subdued. For instance, a pure breed border collie is going to want to herd more than a border collie/lab mix. I know you stated your fear of bird dogs, but again if you get one that is a mix that hunting drive might not be so pronounced. Have you thought about perhaps a Brittany mix. They are great family dogs, really good in the house as long as they get a run twice a day, very docile and not so fuzzy or large. They are super hunt happy though so it would take some training on your part with your birds. I am a believe that they can re-learn. I have a german shepherd mix that killed a neighbor's chicken. Now I have my own chickens that free range and I DO trust her with them. How I retrained her is a long story. Other mixes I would recommend are german shepherds (there are some small ones out there), cocker spaniels, papillons, boston terriers, boxers. Mini-Austrailan shepherds are nice dogs, but they still retain all the herding instincts and traits as a regular size Aussie and still require large amounts of exercise. There is one comment on here about the negatives of having your dog neutered. Please also know that there are negatives to not neutering your dog as well, like the fact that they are more likely to get cancer-breast cancer, ovarian, testicular, etc. Not neutering your dog can lead to behavior problems such as aggression, a dog that runs away, and a dominant dog. I highly recommend you read the dog training books by Ceasar Milan. Good luck on finding the right dog for your family. This is a big decision and is just like adding a kid to a family. Keep researching and learning like you are!!

 

[Pack Mom]

If you are thinking about a terrier remember they are a "go to ground" working dog, so that means they are high energy and love to dig dig dig! Terrier's will did into a hole and kill a rat or such so they have to have the temperament to go with that.

As for a mini Aussie - think before you leap - we have one as wells as 2 border collies and 2 brittanys all extremely high energy. We compete in Frisbee competitions. I have to say our mini Aussie has the energy level of 3 borders put together. Aussies also can have a bit of temperament and be owner protective.

Dorothy