Thinking of trying an experiment.

[bobbi-j]

With so many types to play with the combinations are endless for potential projects. Silver Penciled Turken could be a fun project for instance. If only wanting to move forward with a meatier bird hands on analysis of keel shape and fleshing of birds would be a good method. Pull out the breeders based solely on performance. Breed, color and naked neck or not would have no bearing in who is selected to breed. Tag those females showing most promise now then re-evaluate again at breeding age. Only use the ones wanting to move forward in separate pen with best cock. Less is more kind of thing when wanting to breed for specific attributes you'd use less parent stock for more gain of wanted meat quality of offspring. If mating solely by breed I'd favor something like Dark Cornish over Pioneer. The faster maturing genetics have historically been paired on the mothers side. That mating would likely produce your best option for meat quality- double breasted quick to mature bird. Down side of that is 50% of egg laying potential would be from the poor laying Cornish. Successive generations would need to be selected by laying performance alongside meat quality to produce a well balanced dual purpose line.

The overwhelming amount of genetic material in such crossings makes for a need to be very selective in future generations to manifest your goal. The plus side of all that genetic material is many generations of inbreeding can occur before implementing line breeding or a spiral breeding program. If the Naked Neck is used and you don't like the looks of those then it's only two generations to breed it out of the flock. Being dominate trait all offspring first generation would be naked but then mating of the F1 onto themselves would result in 25% F2 having feathered necks. F1 birds would be rather consistent ut F2 is where all that genetic material will really separate out- vast array of size and body type. A lot of hatching needs to be done that generation to select down to very few females and best male to carry on.

I guess what I was getting at here is don't overlook the awesome effects of single mating when moving on to F2 and F3 generations. Best cock and female only and hatch every egg she lays. That would leap forward in short order opposed to taking genetics from so so birds for more on the ground.

Thanks, Egghead! You've given me more to think about. "Less is more" is probably a good place to start. I really don't NEED 20 pullets! (I will probably still have 20 pullets, though, as I hate to kill a layer or potential layer. One of my weak spots that I need to work on...)

LG - I agree on your "hard cull" and "soft cull methods".

On another note, as I was out doing chores today, 4 of my cockerels decided to have a crowing contest. The SLW has a lovely cockadoodledoo. The white giant and two Aussies need to work on their technique. I suppose now that they're crowing, I need to plan on moving them to the bachelor pad soon. So far, I've only seen a couple attempts at breeding, but not continual harassment so I'm not too worried about it yet. It's ready for them when the time comes.

 

[lazy gardener]

Enjoying the discussion here. As EH states, Pioneer is a nice bird to beef up carcass.

 

[bobbi-j]

I have what I think are two Pioneer-type pullets. They were on the short list for processing, since I didn't know if they'd be longer-lived or not. The Freedom Ranger I kept over one winter died in the spring - I'm not sure from what. I don't remember if she ever laid an egg or not. She may have laid during the winter... Clearly I wasn't impressed enough to remember one way or another.

 

[Mrs. K]

I too, don't need 20 layers. There is two of us, and while often I send home dozens of eggs with my kids, or to thank someone for a favor, still in all, I don't need that many layers. One of the most impressive to me posts was Ridgerunner, where this person only keeps 7-8 layers. I thought what? More is better, right? But I am getting better at thinking this through.

Now, I have a friend, and she sold a dozen hens. Some were pullets, some were 1.5 years old. Got $8-10 a piece for them, some could bring a bit more, but she said, "it bought quite a bit of feed, and let me keep what I really wanted." As often times, layers really are not worth processing, especially if you have sufficient roosters.

I have a friend at work, that has asked me several times if I had extra hens... so (I might be counting my chicks before they are hatched) but if I thin the flock this fall, that might be away to do it.

Mrs K

 

[lazy gardener]

I have what I think are two Pioneer-type pullets. They were on the short list for processing, since I didn't know if they'd be longer-lived or not. The Freedom Ranger I kept over one winter died in the spring - I'm not sure from what. I don't remember if she ever laid an egg or not. She may have laid during the winter... Clearly I wasn't impressed enough to remember one way or another.

The pioneer hen I kept is in her 3rd laying season. She may be the one who is laying the super huge eggs, lacking in membrane quality, and shell strength.

I too, don't need 20 layers. There is two of us, and while often I send home dozens of eggs with my kids, or to thank someone for a favor, still in all, I don't need that many layers. One of the most impressive to me posts was Ridgerunner, where this person only keeps 7-8 layers. I thought what? More is better, right? But I am getting better at thinking this through.

Now, I have a friend, and she sold a dozen hens. Some were pullets, some were 1.5 years old. Got $8-10 a piece for them, some could bring a bit more, but she said, "it bought quite a bit of feed, and let me keep what I really wanted." As often times, layers really are not worth processing, especially if you have sufficient roosters.

I have a friend at work, that has asked me several times if I had extra hens... so (I might be counting my chicks before they are hatched) but if I thin the flock this fall, that might be away to do it.

Mrs K

Excellent thought process. I like to hatch chicks every spring for replacements. If there are extras, it's nice to have a few pullets weaned off heat to sell. That seems to be the age that folks like to have the most, and... really, I can't blame them. comparing the price between a weaned pullet and a 1 year old, or even a 2 year old, the younger bird is by far the better buy, no matter how much more it cost. And, really... less is more. There comes a point when the extra birds do provide you with free eggs. It's good to find that sweet spot, where your birds pay for themselves, provide enough compost for your gardens, but don't increase your work load, or tax your coop/run space, or even overload your soil with too much nutrient.

 

[Mini Meat]

Quote: I am thinking along the same lines as far as cull pullets and older hens go. I don't love butchering hens. It is easy to do cockerels but pullets and hens are harder for me. Next years plan is to offer them as soon as the are off the heat at at every stage of growth there after until they sell.Raising the price accordingly. I think there will be a market.

I imagen the family who wanted a 4 layer flock. They went to the feed store and bought 4 chicks. Now at 6-10 weeks one dies and another is a roo. Finding my ad and being able to buy same age pullets to fill out their needs will be a great boon to them. Or the family that lost all but one hen in a coon raid would probably be thrilled to pick up a few my older layers or breeders that I am not going to use again.

 

[Big Cluck]

So I didn't read all the responses. I don't have much experience with Roos, but we hatched out 2 last fall. When they started getting aggressive with each other the smaller (nicer looking one) one became soup in the spring. The larger one (who I wanted to roast soooo badly) was my daughters. Everything was fine until he hit about 9 mo old. At that point he turned on myself, my younger daughter and the cat. None of us could safely move through the yard with out being attacked. My older daughter could still pick him up and cuddle him. One day my younger daughter was playing with her dolls in the hammock and Cinderella (the roo) jumped up into the hammock unprovoked and tried to take her left eye out. Knowing if I got caught roasting him, my daughter would never trust me enough to eat anything i cooked again, I reluctantly gave him to a local farmer. I'm sure he had a tasty dinner on me! So in short, if you are looking at aggression as a factor I would wait till they are 9-10 months old. Good luck and enjoy!

 

[bobbi-j]

So I didn't read all the responses. I don't have much experience with Roos, but we hatched out 2 last fall. When they started getting aggressive with each other the smaller (nicer looking one) one became soup in the spring. The larger one (who I wanted to roast soooo badly) was my daughters. Everything was fine until he hit about 9 mo old. At that point he turned on myself, my younger daughter and the cat. None of us could safely move through the yard with out being attacked. My older daughter could still pick him up and cuddle him. One day my younger daughter was playing with her dolls in the hammock and Cinderella (the roo) jumped up into the hammock unprovoked and tried to take her left eye out. Knowing if I got caught roasting him, my daughter would never trust me enough to eat anything i cooked again, I reluctantly gave him to a local farmer. I'm sure he had a tasty dinner on me! So in short, if you are looking at aggression as a factor I would wait till they are 9-10 months old. Good luck and enjoy!

Thank you. Yes, I know it doesn't show up right away. I am going to only keep two roosters over the winter but if one (or both) of them becomes aggressive, the project will not happen. It's not worth it to me to have a mean rooster. I enjoy keeping chickens, but if any bird takes away that enjoyment, it's gone. I'm glad you got rid of Cinderella.

 

[Big Cluck]

Yes, I was sad to see him go in some ways. I really liked the idea of having a rooster named Cinderella, lol. I was truly amazed at the transformation of the flock back into "pets" with no roosters! I knew he had to go for a month or so before he went. My older daughter prolonged it by breaking down in tears everytime I suggested it. He hatched right in her hands.. She named him Cinderella because she wanted him to be a hen . Happy chickening!

 

[bobbi-j]

Well, I'm going to have to make a decision soon. The cockerels are getting frisky, and nobody is appreciating that! One of them jumped Brunhilda today and was quite rough while grabbing her neck feathers - twisting like he was trying to pull them out. When he got done and tried to run away, she ended up with a mouthful of his tail feathers!

She clearly was not impressed with the situation. It's not to the point where the girls are being continually harassed and run ragged, and I watched one of the Australorp cockerels chase the generic red one (the one that got schooled by Brunhilda) off a pullet but didn't try to breed her himself. Butchering will have to wait until next week, though, as our son is getting married on Saturday so we're going to be busy getting ready for that all week. But after the wedding, we will have fewer cockerels.