Thinking Outside of the Coop: Waste Management and Stimulation

[linuxusr]

Hello All,

I am now involved in coop planning and building. Living in Santo Domingo, the capital, (instead of a rural, agricultural area) of the Dominican Republic presents challenges, requiring that I jerry-rig many things that would not be issues in first world countries such as the U.S. I must, therefore, "think outside of the coop."
As an example, at this time I can find neither hay nor wood shavings. For nesting boxes, I will tear up newspaper. It is a wood product and I think that it will be fluffy, warm, and comfortable.

My biggest challenge is the fact that my coop will be located on cement on my second floor back patio. The secondary problem presented by cement is that it inhibits scratching. I'm thinking that stimulation is critical in the prevention of cannibalism and other problems. The primary problem is waste management.

I have a solution for waste management that I have dreamed up. I won't know how it works until I implement it. I'd like to know what you think about the following idea:
Good idea, bad idea? Pros, cons, suggestions?

Suppose I construct in natural pine a structure that takes up the entire floor area of the coop. This structure will have 1/2 inch holes drilled throughout the base, covered with pottery shards, to allow water drainage. We have short but very intense rains here, promoting rapid flooding. Further, the structure will have 1 inch legs, giving space between the cement floor and the unit, to assist the water drainage.

The sides will be about 8 inches high. Into this pine basin, covering the entire area of the coop, I will pour a mixture of about 80% loam and 20% sand to the height of about 4 inches. Four inches will remain as the basin fills with water during a downpour as it drains.

All my hens, therefore, will be on soil, able to scratch. I will even be able to mix into the soil tasty items that they can scratch and hunt for. The principal function of the soil will be waste management. I will periodically turn over the soil, particularly under the roosts, hoping that the biological decay process can keep up and prevent ammonia buildup. If not, then I will have to replenish with some new soil on a "as needed" basis much as you do with a cat litter box. As time goes on, if I can find wood shavings or hay, I may add. I can find pine sawdust at the local lumber store but I'm concerned about respiratory effects with the finer dust particles.

It's going to take me some time to design and build this structure and I don't even know how well it will work. I'd appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Red-Stars-in-RI]

Interesting situation and idea.

I like the inclination to put them on soil...seems wise for their general happiness and for waste management.

I could see making that “tray” 8-12 inches deep and make it removable for easy cleaning.

Think of it as a mini “deep litter method” - the soil, carbon source, and manure would mix to keep smells down and partially compost. Once “full”, you could remove, clean out, and replenish.

How big an area are you looking at? How many birds?

 

[DobieLover]

The second floor cement balcony of an apartment complex in the city is not an appropriate living environment for a flock of chickens. Perhaps you should consider raising quail instead.

 

[linuxusr]

It's not a balcony. It's a patio with a large surface area. Cement is inappropriate, as you say. That is why they will be 100% on soil. And what's your definition of a flock? Do two hens make a flock? I am considering three only.

That being said, thanks for mentioning the quail alternative. Are quail considered poultry? Raised for meat only? Are the eggs viable for consumption? Very small, I would imagine.

 

[aart]

It's not a balcony.

"second floor" kind of implies a balcony.
How big is it?
How will you contain the dirt?
What's underneath it? Pics?

Quail for meat and eggs.... yes, eggs are small.

 

[linuxusr]

Interesting situation and idea.

I like the inclination to put them on soil...seems wise for their general happiness and for waste management.

I could see making that “tray” 8-12 inches deep and make it removable for easy cleaning.

Think of it as a mini “deep litter method” - the soil, carbon source, and manure would mix to keep smells down and partially compost. Once “full”, you could remove, clean out, and replenish.

How big an area are you looking at? How many birds?

I hadn't thought about it but you are absolutely correct. I will be composting. The challenge will be achieving a balance between food inputs and the decay process, and if I cannot achieve a balance, finding out how much material I have to replenish.

I think I'll be doing some background reading on composting in general to get a better grip on the biochemical process as well as best practices. Haven't googled yet, but I suspect there's a ton of information.

Tied to this is my surface area and number of hens. I estimate my area to be 87 ft^2. I am thinking of supporting 3-5 hens and, down the line, a rooster. Likely I will start with three young hens not yet ready for laying. When I establish a routine of feeding, a pecking order, comfort and security for them, waste management, then I will decide if I can add more.

To make an analogy to the aquarium, you start with only one or two fish. Once the nitrogen cycle is running, you add.

I will largely control waste management by how much I feed. Many people anthropomorphize their animal friends by overfeeding. I know that chickens are opportunistic omnivores and eat EVERYTHING. This doesn't mean that everything is equally healthy, however, Once I settle on a food combination, depending on what is available here, I will feed pretty conservatively twice per day, early morning and afternoon.
Throughout the day I will limit to various fruits and vegetables in suet cages or suspended.

We'll see how this goes.

Some other aspects of my coop build: It will be in the shape of an L. The long end of the L will be a run and it will be around 17 x 3 feet. The short end of the L will be about 3 x 12 feet and it will be where my various structures are. The first is an unfinished pine nesting unit, for three nests, each 12x12x12, the unit being 36x12x12. On top of this, of identical size, will be my "safe house" where the hens can go to get out of the wind and rain or to feel secure. It will have one 12x12 opening with the rest of the face closed. From the "door" will be a ramp descending to the ground. The last item, which will be opposite on the short end of the L will be an A-frame roost. This structure will have three roosts separated by 12 inches. Instead of a board underneath for droppings, I will find a way to augment the soil. This may be the area where I have to replenish. The whole structure will be a cage with chicken wire and supports and doors for human entry.

I diagram each part on graph paper and I have a carpenter who builds. All will be untreated pine subject to normal weathering.

 

[aart]

To make an analogy to the aquarium, you start with only one or two fish. Once the nitrogen cycle is running, you add.

Similar, yes, but with fish the water volume stays the same...
....not so much with composting.

I diagram each part on graph paper

Would love to see your plans!

 

[linuxusr]

"second floor" kind of implies a balcony.
How big is it?
How will you contain the dirt?
What's underneath it? Pics?

Quail for meat and eggs.... yes, eggs are small.

Thanks for getting back to me. The apartment we are moving into is huge and not at all typical. It has four rooms, each the size of a moderate living room, plus three bedrooms and two bathrooms. In the front is a balcony. In the back is a large patio where my coop will be. I haven't measured the surface area of the patio but my coop will be in the shape of an L. The short end of the L will be on the short side of the patio and the long end of the L will be on the long side. The two sections will meet at right angles, the corner. The long section, the run, will be 17 x 3 feet. The short section, supporting three nesting boxes, a "safe house" as protection from wind and rain, with a ramp, (it will sit above the nesting boxes), and an A-frame roost with three roosts, 12 inches apart. The roost will be opposite of the nesting boxes and house, in the corner. The short end of the L is 12 x 3 feet.

I am thinking of supporting 3 small hens, a maximum of 5, depending on how that goes.

No hen will ever touch cement. The entire floor area will be an L shaped structure made of unfinished pine. It will have 1/2 inch holes drilled throughout the base. Pottery shards will cover these holes to allow water drainage without losing soil. The unit will be on short legs, one inch above the ground, again, for water drainage. The sides will be about 8 inches. A combination of loam, sand, possibly sawdust, will go to about 5 inches. The entire soil bed will be set up as compost for waste management, If the decay process cannot keep up with the food inputs, I will replenish as necessary, particularly under the roosts.

Hens can scratch and peck as they please. They will never touch cement.

 

[linuxusr]

Similar, yes, but with fish the water volume stays the same...
....not so much with composting.

Would love to see your plans!

OK, so composting is a dynamic process, at least on the molecular level. So are you saying that the volume of a compost decreases over time? Water also evaporates in an aquarium . . .

 

[DobieLover]

I will largely control waste management by how much I feed. Many people anthropomorphize their animal friends by overfeeding.

This really isn't practical. The chickens need to eat what they need to eat. They should have free choice of a complete chicken feed available to them at all times. If you don't want to anthropomorphize them by overfeeding them, don't offer them anything other than their complete feed.

for three nests, each 12x12x12

You only need one nest box per five hens.

This structure will have three roosts separated by 12 inches. Instead of a board underneath for droppings, I will find a way to augment the soil.

Does the apartment complex know of all these plans? Are owned chickens permitted on the property? The person that lives below your balcony? How much weight was the balcony designed to support?

All will be untreated pine subject to normal weathering.

Untreated lumber in a tropical climate will not last long.

BTW, chickens DIG! They will 'unearth' anything they have in their run and will strewn the contents far and wide. I read you intend to cover the concrete with wood with holes drilled into it and pottery shards to cover the holes. The chicken will dig up the shards.
Where does the patio drain? How are you going to remove waste product from the run/coop? If you are trying to do all this on a concrete patio, you will sooner or later have to remove material and get it down to the first floor.

I was very serious when I said you should consider quail! I really think you should look into them. You could make an amazing enclosure for them and they would be much more manageable and practical for an apartment on the second floor than a flock of chickens.