Time to go on the offensive...enough is enough.

[TropicalBabies]

Long shot, but I'll ask anyway. Do you know what poison was being used? Exactly?

My assumption would be a bait poison. They are popular and the rat searching for water would be my biggest clue as that is common for bait poison from what the pest control company told me. The rats carcass was next to their water. I don't know about the chickens body placement. I should ask her and get back to you all.
I myself wont use bait because we have dogs and cats and chickens... and the pros don't recommend if you have other animals (plus I live on a small island and all things have an impact). At our cabin up Koke'e we used an electric mouse trap that worked great. Reusable and all of the good stuff especially if you don't mind the manor of death. he he!

 

[Lizzy733]

I'm really confused about rat poisons. I've heard that there are certain kinds that will not harm other animals that might eat a poisoned rat, but I don't know if that's true. I'm too afraid to try using rat poison because our dog might possibly eat a dead rat if he were to find one, and obviously I don't want anything to happen to our dog. Does anyone know the whole scoop on this issue?

One non-toxic method is plaster of paris mixed with cornmeal, sugar and cocoa powder - it does its thing in their gut and won't hurt other animals that ingest them as its already done its dash. Other commercial ones shut of 'thirst' receptors in their stomach so they just don't drink and die of dehydration.
Personally, we don't poison as it's a slow painful death. We have a 'Good Nature' pheumatic trap which re-arms after a kill and records confirmed kills set up along the rat run (the very expensive option) and an old box snap trap baited with bacon grease - in the past three weeks, we've killed x4 rats and x2 mice with this setup. We didn't like how they were out in broad daylight greedily peeking in the run at our new batch of chicks.

 

[AsaDotJava]

As for secondary poisoning, to those on this thread who caution against using bait blocks, do you have actual proof that such a thing has happened to you or are you stating your fears based on heresay or personal beliefs?

Contact any wildlife rehab center, and they will tell you about the raptors that they treat for secondary poisoning all the time. We also treated a dog, where I used to work, for secondary poisoning, and more than one, for eating the bait itself. (one of those died) It is not worth the risk, IMO, to even have that stuff around. There is a product out there, that I have used, called RatX (also one called MouseX) that is safe for other animals. It consists of corn gluten meal and salt. The rats cannot digest it, so it fills them up and they can't get rid of it. Does not cause secondary poisoning, and is safe for our chickens, pets and kids. The problem I have found is that it is not that attractive to rats, but they will eat it if they don't have access to other food. I sprinkle a minute amount of powder from the chicken crumbles over it to make it more attractive to them also. Frankly, the best rat control I've found, was the skunk that used to live under my house. She did a great job, not a single rat left.

Exactly what I was going to say, townchicks. At the raptor rehab where I volunteer, birds who have eaten poisoned rodents are commonly brought in.

At the vet clinic where I worked for many years, dogs were constantly being brought in for having eaten rat bait. Many of them didn't survive because the human didn't see it happen and it was days before they realized something was wrong.

Anything that will eat a rat will also eat or kill a live chicken. Secondary poisonings can be a good thing, imo.

This is a truly horrendous thing to say. Unless an animal is actively threatening your stock, you should not be wanting to kill it for simply having the potential to eat another animal.

 

[Lizzy733]

From what has been told to me, the warfarin works in rats and mice because they can not regurgitate. It stays in their stomach and makes holes in their stomach and then the rat bleeds to death internally. It would stand to reason that any other animal that can regurgitate would not have the same problem. But whether a warfarin-killed rat would make a dog throw up if he ate it, I am not sure.

Warafin is an anticoagulant - and some rats can develop a resistance to it. Pets will be affected by it and the quick intervention is a big dose of Vitamin K to counteract the poison. If you find your dog digging into a carcass, this should be your first treatment - especially smaller dogs. Also a pretty wretched way to go - I've watched a baby hedgehog die from this and it's not pretty. It was too far gone for the K to be of any use by the time we found it.

 

[Howard E]

Our chickens were in our basement mud room for about a year, and rats moved in. My mum tried so many things to get rid of them- she buried glass where their tunnels were, and they dug tunnels elsewhere. We destroyed their nests at least 20 separate times— they’d be back within a week. Eventually, we gave in and bought poison, if only so my dad couldn’t complain about the chickens bringing rats (he doesn’t like animals) I’m not sure if this is the exact poison we got, it was a bucket of TomCat Place Packs that would dehydrate the rats— they went into their nests, died, and never smelt. I moved my chickens into a metal shed across the yard, and I haven’t seen rats since.

View attachment 1941229

Good to know it worked for you.

Having said that, the safer delivery method would be to use the same product in bait chunks / blocks, and served up from a secure bait station.....so the only thing that can get to the bait would be rats or mice.

This is the bait station.....

https://www.motomco.com/motomco/product/us/pest-control/tomcat-rat-bait-station

This would be the same bait content as your place pacs......

https://www.motomco.com/motomco/product/us/pest-control/tomcat-all-weather-bait-chunx

And from Tomcat, their version of the alternative "safe" bait....

https://www.motomco.com/motomco/product/us/pest-control/agrid3-bait-chunx

 

[Meg-in-MT]

This is a truly horrendous thing to say. Unless an animal is actively threatening your stock, you should not be wanting to kill it for simply having the potential to eat another animal.

"Should not" should really be followed by "in my opinion"...in my opinion

If I see a coyote on or near my property I am not going to wait for it to kill my chickens or barn cats before I do something about it. They may not be actively seeking chicken dinner, but they certainly won't turn their nose up at it. That's good enough for me. Part of my job in raising animals is to protect them.

 

[Howard E]

My assumption would be a bait poison. They are popular and the rat searching for water would be my biggest clue as that is common for bait poison from what the pest control company told me. The rats carcass was next to their water. I don't know about the chickens body placement. I should ask her and get back to you all.
I myself wont use bait because we have dogs and cats and chickens... and the pros don't recommend if you have other animals (plus I live on a small island and all things have an impact). At our cabin up Koke'e we used an electric mouse trap that worked great. Reusable and all of the good stuff especially if you don't mind the manor of death. he he!

Which is why as asked "exactly". There are maybe a dozen or more types of commercial made rodenticide baits available to use from a whole host of companies selling them, PLUS some homemade remedies and delivery methods that are not approved by anyone, yet are used anyway.

So before describing all baits as being either good or bad, it would help to know exactly what it was that caused the bad experience.

I don't object to any of the forms of traps.......but I would not count on traps alone to solve a rodent problem. Ironically, an effective trapping program that actually did put a dent in the populations may trigger an explosion of reproduction to make for the losses. Nature has armed rats with some pretty effective defensive measures.

 

[TropicalBabies]

Which is why as asked "exactly". There are maybe a dozen or more types of commercial made rodenticide baits available to use from a whole host of companies selling them, PLUS some homemade remedies and delivery methods that are not approved by anyone, yet are used anyway.

So before describing all baits as being either good or bad, it would help to know exactly what it was that caused the bad experience.

I don't object to any of the forms of traps.......but I would not count on traps alone to solve a rodent problem. Ironically, an effective trapping program that actually did put a dent in the populations may trigger an explosion of reproduction to make for the losses. Nature has armed rats with some pretty effective defensive measures.

So before describing all baits as being either good or bad, it would help to know exactly what it was that caused the bad experience.
For the record, I was not judging. Just sharing my experience. No way for me to know exactly -this was not my neighbor or chickens- just my good friend.
We are not like the mainland with 1000 choices on every item, we have to have our products shipped by freighter. We have 1 choice of store bought bait in my town and professionals use a better quality "cake" from my understanding in dealing with and talking to the pro's in my role as a resort manager. I had to slightly educate myself on just a few things. And again, we are on a small island. We see and feel our good and bad choices faster than most cities and towns. Aloooha

 

[Fairview01]

Exactly what I was going to say, townchicks. At the raptor rehab where I volunteer, birds who have eaten poisoned rodents are commonly brought in.

At the vet clinic where I worked for many years, dogs were constantly being brought in for having eaten rat bait. Many of them didn't survive because the human didn't see it happen and it was days before they realized something was wrong.



This is a truly horrendous thing to say. Unless an animal is actively threatening your stock, you should not be wanting to kill it for simply having the potential to eat another animal.

Obviously you have not awaken in the morning and turn to the task of carting 350lbs of chicken carcasses to the curb in the roll out because a bobcat had fun the night before. 0nce you do I'm sure your tune will change.

Every town has leash laws. These laws are in place to protect other peoples animals and the owners dogs. Let your dog run free and the owner must accept and suffer the consequences.

Rats and mice don't travel all that far. If a bird of prey, predator or varmit is close enough to find one of them then they have visited my coops and run also.

My LFW cornish trios fetch $300. Do I care about my neighbors free roaming dog, birds of prey, predators or varmints? Heck no.

 

[AsaDotJava]

"Should not" should really be followed by "in my opinion"...in my opinion

If I see a coyote on or near my property I am not going to wait for it to kill my chickens or barn cats before I do something about it. They may not be actively seeking chicken dinner, but they certainly won't turn their nose up at it. That's good enough for me. Part of my job in raising animals is to protect them.

Raising animals doesn't make you God. It doesn't give you the right to kill needlessly.

Obviously you have not awaken in the morning and turn to the task of carting 350lbs of chicken carcasses to the curb in the roll out because a bobcat had fun the night before. 0nce you do I'm sure your tune will change.

I don't think I have ever had chickens that add up to 350 lbs, so you're right
But when I was a kid, we had a Bobcat in the coop once. We had raccoons tear chickens apart. We had coyotes and cougars and loose dogs kill and maim stock. We lost more than just chickens. And that was because no one was guarding the stock at night. There wasn't enough activity on that part of the property. My stock now is protected by dogs. And wouldn't you know it, we have never lost a single animal? If the dogs see a predator, they warn it off. If the predator chooses to ignore that warning and continues to advance, it is liable to get killed for threatening the stock.

Every town has leash laws. These laws are in place to protect other peoples animals and the owners dogs. Let your dog run free and the owner must accept and suffer the consequences.

It is legal to shoot a dog that is molesting your stock, yes. It isn't legal to shoot a dog for simply wandering, through. I am all in favour of securing your animals - secure prey animals so they aren't eaten and secure predators so they don't kill prey animals. Ask me how I feel about cats being outdoors!

Rats and mice don't travel all that far. If a bird of prey, predator or varmit is close enough to find one of them then they have visited my coops and run also.

If there are rats, they are keeping predators fed.

My LFW cornish trios fetch $300. Do I care about my neighbors free roaming dog, birds of prey, predators or varmints? Heck no.

I don't know what "LFW" stands for... But I care about animals, not money. I do my part to keep my animals secure and safe, and I let wildlife live their lives unless we have a problem.

Everyone is welcome to handle their business as they see fit. But don't expect everyone to agree with it (just as I know not eveyone agrees with me). Differing opinions make the world go round.