tips and secrets of the GQF 1502 sportsman...

[cmom]

Quote:
There are two types of bleach and one for cleaning, active ingredient at 6% Sodium Hypochlorite and regular bleach at 8.2% Sodium Hypochlorite. Most stores sell both strengths and one is marked Cleaning and the other just says Bleach. The water temperature should be warmer than the eggs you're cleaning. I do not dunk my eggs either I rinse them under the faucet.

 

[JetCat]

.......The water temperature should be warmer than the eggs you're cleaning.

i've read the reasoning behind that recommendation and while it sounds good in theory, it really doesn't follow logic. cold is the absence of heat and heat will migrate. using a water that is hotter then the egg will cause the cooler internals of the egg to want to draw that heat and whatever else you're trying to keep out of the egg inward, and would not push outward. washing in a water colder then the egg would cause the reverse of that.

 

[duluthralphie]

i've read the reasoning behind that recommendation and while it sounds good in theory, it really doesn't follow logic. cold is the absence of heat and heat will migrate. using a water that is hotter then the egg will cause the cooler internals of the egg to want to draw that heat and whatever else you're trying to keep out of the egg inward, and would not push outward. washing in a water colder then the egg would cause the reverse of that.

I think you are in error here.

Think of the egg as being Neutral Temp.

If you dunk the egg in cold the egg interior will shrink drawing air and contaminants through the shell. The air sac will shrink and pull "stuff/germs through the shell. The shell is porous.

If the water is warmer than the egg it will cause the contents of the egg to expand and nothing will go into the shell until after it is disinfected. When it cools from disinfecting it might pull something through the shell, but everything is sterile then.


You have to remember we are dealing with rules for gas and liquid not solid. A solid would expand as it cooled. Egg interiors are liquid.

Far greater minds than mine have explored this, anything you read on the subject whether eating or hatching eggs says water warmed than the egg.

Now there is not going to be much expansion as the eggs is not in the solution long or under the facet long, it is never going to warm enough to kill the embryo. It would only take a minute amount of contracting to pull a bad germ through the egg contaminating the egg and the incubator.

I am thinking of taking a hatching break to re-sterilize my incubator. or maybe move the eggs to the hatchers for a day while I we-sterilize.

I am actually worried I might have brought something into the incubator before I did the disinfecting of the eggs...

I also know most people here say not to disinfect because of the bloom. I am going with the experts until proven wrong.

 

[JetCat]

I think you are in error here.

Think of the egg as being Neutral Temp.

If you dunk the egg in cold the egg interior will shrink drawing air and contaminants through the shell. The air sac will shrink and pull "stuff/germs through the shell. The shell is porous.

If the water is warmer than the egg it will cause the contents of the egg to expand and nothing will go into the shell until after it is disinfected. When it cools from disinfecting it might pull something through the shell, but everything is sterile then.


You have to remember we are dealing with rules for gas and liquid not solid. A solid would expand as it cooled. Egg interiors are liquid.

Far greater minds than mine have explored this, anything you read on the subject whether eating or hatching eggs says water warmed than the egg.

Now there is not going to be much expansion as the eggs is not in the solution long or under the facet long, it is never going to warm enough to kill the embryo. It would only take a minute amount of contracting to pull a bad germ through the egg contaminating the egg and the incubator.

I am thinking of taking a hatching break to re-sterilize my incubator. or maybe move the eggs to the hatchers for a day while I we-sterilize.

I am actually worried I might have brought something into the incubator before I did the disinfecting of the eggs...

I also know most people here say not to disinfect because of the bloom. I am going with the experts until proven wrong.

if we used your statement that the cold water caused the egg shell to shrink, it would then squeeze the contents inside the egg causing a positive pressure inside the egg, grab the end of a balloon and start squeezing one end making it smaller (shrinking) without letting the inside contents out it'll burst.

not that it matters but a solid expands when it's heated too just like the liquid and gas...........and the contents of the egg won't expand until they've been sufficiently heated, this isn't gonna happen in the time it takes to wash an egg unless you use some ungodly higher temp water.


it's just like canning in your kitchen. you have to bring the internal temp of the jar up with a lengthy hot water bath (or hot contents poured into the jar) and it's only after the internal temp starts to cool back down that it draws the lid down and seals it shut.

 

[duluthralphie]

if we used your statement that the cold water caused the egg shell to shrink, it would then squeeze the contents inside the egg causing a positive pressure inside the egg, grab the end of a balloon and start squeezing one end making it smaller (shrinking) without letting the inside contents out it'll burst.

not that it matters but a solid expands when it's heated too just like the liquid and gas...........and the contents of the egg won't expand until they've been sufficiently heated, this isn't gonna happen in the time it takes to wash an egg unless you use some ungodly higher temp water.


it's just like canning in your kitchen. you have to bring the internal temp of the jar up with a lengthy hot water bath (or hot contents poured into the jar) and it's only after the internal temp starts to cool back down that it draws the lid down and seals it shut.

It is not the eggs shell you worry about it is the contents of the egg. You are right, I was thinking of the change between states when a liquid goes to a solid state it expands right?

Please forgive errors it has been over 40 years since I had a science class.

 

[duluthralphie]

if we used your statement that the cold water caused the egg shell to shrink, it would then squeeze the contents inside the egg causing a positive pressure inside the egg, grab the end of a balloon and start squeezing one end making it smaller (shrinking) without letting the inside contents out it'll burst.

not that it matters but a solid expands when it's heated too just like the liquid and gas...........and the contents of the egg won't expand until they've been sufficiently heated, this isn't gonna happen in the time it takes to wash an egg unless you use some ungodly higher temp water.


it's just like canning in your kitchen. you have to bring the internal temp of the jar up with a lengthy hot water bath (or hot contents poured into the jar) and it's only after the internal temp starts to cool back down that it draws the lid down and seals it shut.

I understand what you're saying, I am just going to go with what the "experts' at the NPIP class told us.

I do not think either the shell or contents are going to expand or contract in the short time I wash them. I am a speedy little buggar

 

[JetCat]

I understand what you're saying, I am just going to go with what the "experts' at the NPIP class told us.

I do not think either the shell or contents are going to expand or contract in the short time I wash them. I am a speedy little buggar

i by no means intend to tell anyone how to wash their eggs, i just don't agree with the logic they try to use to justify using hot water.


i honestly don't think it makes a hill of beans worth of difference which you use but for me hot water costs more then cold water so i use cold, i'm a state certified hatchery and my incubators/hatchers (or birds) have never had positive test results of any kind (positives are bad)

If i wanted to convince someone to use hot water to wash their eggs a more logical reason would be 'in hot water the molecules are vibrating faster so therefore it cleans the eggs better with less effort on your part, the molecules are also spaced further apart when heated and they can get into tighter spaces (such as the pours of the shell)'

 

[duluthralphie]

i by no means intend to tell anyone how to wash their eggs, i just don't agree with the logic they try to use to justify using hot water.


i honestly don't think it makes a hill of beans worth of difference which you use but for me hot water costs more then cold water so i use cold, i'm a state certified hatchery and my incubators/hatchers (or birds) have never had positive test results of any kind (positives are bad)

If i wanted to convince someone to use hot water to wash their eggs a more logical reason would be 'in hot water the molecules are vibrating faster so therefore it cleans the eggs better with less effort on your part, the molecules are also spaced further apart when heated and they can get into tighter spaces (such as the pours of the shell)'

BUT if the water molecules have expanded there is more "air" in the water, so more room for germs to occupy... ( the high density altitude/hot air for lift in aircraft argument but with water)....
For the few cents the water costs me to heat it, I will do it their way. I just looked the NPIP certifying book, and it says "water warmer than the egg" and at least 100 degrees.


Another reason to use warm water is my joints have arthritis in them and hurt in cold water. I do tend to agree, either way will not make a lot of difference because of the short time disinfecting takes.





BTW we are talking about a really really small germ here.

 

[JetCat]

BUT if the water molecules have expanded there is more "air" in the water, so more room for germs to occupy...

No not at all. there's nothing between the molecules, if there were you'd break the covalent bond and you would no longer have H2O so no water, that's way beyond the topic here so..........I have two GQF 1502s and i love them both, wish i had two more............and a couple 1550s too!!!

 

[duluthralphie]

No not at all. there's nothing between the molecules, if there were you'd break the covalent bond and you would no longer have H2O so no water, that's way beyond the topic here so..........I have two GQF 1502s and i love them both, wish i had two more............and a couple 1550s too!!!

I agree way beyond here. However, Airplanes fly by the distance between the molecules on the top of the wing being further apart than on the bottom, Sucking the air plane up into the air..

Further High density altitude happens because the air is able to hold more moisture molecules. this occurs as the gas expands and the distance between the molecules expand allowing water molecules in. Increasing take off rolls, rates of climb and general performance..,..



And I wish I had a few more GQF's also. I would like to have one as a hatcher. but being retired I doubt it will happen. There is no overtime to pay for it.