To Kill or Not To Kill

Discussion in 'Predators and Pests' started by Mountain Man Jim, Oct 21, 2007.

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  1. All right! I’m just going to jump right and stir the pot.

    I believe it may not be a good idea to kill large predators. The reason is because they are often very territorial; hence killing one only opens the door for another to take over the territory.

    I think it might be possible to mark our personal territory as off limits and allow the large predators to carve out their territory around ours. All I’m taking about is the area needed for the chickens.

    Currently, I’m doing this with 4 ft wire mesh fencing and a Livestock Guardian Dog. The fence is there to mark the territory (1 acre) and to keep the LGD inside the yard. I have foxes, coyote, bobcats and bear in the area. They sometimes get near the fence line, but are quickly met by 95 lbs of galloping fur and disperse.

    I have armed myself with various non-lethal weapons. These are used to get the point across to the would be predator that even though the dog can’t cross the fence, I can reach out at touch them. I use airsoft, paintball and bb guns to do the touching.

    I believe that by “training” the local predators I’m actually protecting the chickens better, then by killing the predators. This is because the now training predator will defend its territory; not allow “untrained” predators into the area.

    Relative to the small predators, I believe the gloves can come off. I don’t have problems with raccoons, rats and the like. Maybe the larger predators are keeping their numbers low. But, if I did the high powered pellet gun would come out.

    As I’ve seen there are plenty of people on the forum that have, like and use firearms. That’s great, I’m just throwing this out as food for thought. Personally the State doesn’t allow me to fire such weapons in my area.

  2. panner123

    panner123 Songster

    Jan 15, 2007
    Garden Valley, ca
    I do have a problem with large predators and have sent to better place (my table). Some have said I was crazy to get within 5 yards of the last bear I killed, with a bow. With all I do to keep these critters out, electric fence, radio on 24/7, motion detectors with light and noise makers, and a dog, they still try for the animals I have. To shoot a bear with an air soft of pellet gun is beyond crazy. Two of the bears I had to shoot were coming into the house, one was coming in the bedroom window at night while I was in the bed, the other cane in the front door while I was watching T V. Both of these met with a large hand gun, neither when down with the first shot. What would a pellet gun do in a case like this? No, I do not hunt hese animals, but when they come inside my fenced area and I am around they are dinner. My biggest problems now are the wild turkey and deer. They can fly or jump the fence, but they don't eat much or kill my animals, so they come and go. As for training a bear to stay out of your area with a pellet gun, all I can say is, GOOD LUCK. Oh! And where do we send the flowers? I live in Ca., one of the hardest states on killing animals, yet in the defense of your livestock or person you can kill the attacking animal. If your animals are atacked and you don't see it happen you must get a special permit from the fish and game dept. to deal with it. There is NO need to kill every predatorm but there is a time when it must be done.
  3. rufus

    rufus Crowing

    May 17, 2007
    Traditionally, livestock raising in the west has been done on federal lands that are leased out for this purpose. The ranchers usually only owned the areas where the house and barn were and where the windmills were located.

    The rancher did the predator control function for the area. But now days, so many ranches are going out of business, giving up the leases and selling off their private owned parcels. These are turning into those little 40 acre ranchetts the city folks love.

    So as the rancher goes out of business and is no longer is doing the predator control the predator base increases just as the livestock prey bases is removed.

    Guess who is the new prey base? Mr. City Slicker.

  4. PurpleChicken

    PurpleChicken Tolerated.....Mostly

    Apr 6, 2007
    City Slicker: "Oh look at the pretty bear. Give it a sandwich. Maybe if we are
    nice to it it won't eat our chickens, dogs, and children. Talk to it, don't hurt it"

    Then turns and drives away in their BMW with and old Kerry/Edwards bumper
    sticker on the back.

    Sorry couldn't help myself.
  5. MarkR

    MarkR Songster

    Mar 11, 2007
    Ivy, Virginia
    I'm going out on a limb, here, and agreeing with Jim. Call me a city slicker and I'll laugh out loud. I lived in town once. I won't do it again.

    All I can say is, there used to be a bear in my neighborhood. Now he's got several bright yellow paint spots and received a nice electrical jolt in the mouth from my baited fence. He goes around our property now. My property isn't fenced, I just made a concentrated effort to make him unhappy whenever he walked onto my property. Persistance pays off. Before that, I lost one hen to a hawk. Put up netting, no problem. The local foxes tasted the fence several times as well and don't mess with chickens, but they like my persimmons. The last remaining problem (for now, I know) are the dogs that one of my idiot neighbors let run free. I do, however, have a raccoon living on borrowed time. I just think there's a time and place for taking lethal measures, and we too often go there first.

  6. texaschickmama

    texaschickmama Songster

    Sep 19, 2007
    Poolville, TX
    Purplechicken....... [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    SO TRUE...... SO TRUE
  7. WoodlandWoman

    WoodlandWoman Crowing

    May 8, 2007
    Panner123, I don't think Mountain Man Jim was talking about using the high powered pellet gun on a bear, I think he was talking about using it on small predators, if he ever had a problem with them.
  8. MarkR

    MarkR Songster

    Mar 11, 2007
    Ivy, Virginia
    By the way, I think a bear coming in a window, or through a door, is the proper time and place for a lethal response. It seems obvious in that case. Just wanted to make that clear, as it wasn't in my first post.


  9. speckledhen

    speckledhen Intentional Solitude

    By the way, I think a bear coming in a window, or through a door, is the proper time and place for a lethal response

    All I can say to that is, well, DUH! LOL. Yeah, doubt I'd use only harsh language at that point, either! :eek:
  10. birdnutz

    birdnutz Songster

    Mar 6, 2007
    Isn't this called aversion training?
    Steve Irwin was using it on crocodiles in Australia and they're using dogs and plastic bullets on black bears in Yellowstone. Haven't really heard how well it's working on these predators,but if it works more power to them.
    I will say that if a bear was coming into my house I would have me a bear skin rug for the winter. I just never see that as being a problem around my place. So far skunks have been my only problem. Maybe I should knock on wood!
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