To worm or not to worm that is the question.

[casportpony]

I would think that good management practices would include diagnostics, especially when people *are* suggesting that birds only get an overload of worms when they have an underlying problem.

As for hundreds of dollars, wormers and fecals are cheap, and many states offer low cost or free necropsies. Sure, some states do charge a lot, but even those that do charge will sometimes waive the fee if one explains their financial situation.

That's what the look see at a little clump.of soil here and there can do.. I borrow the $15 microscope kit of the kids and look at the soil..since that's where most worms and eggs actually come from, poorly managed poo impacted soil

What are you looking for when you look at the soil?

 

[lazy gardener]

Quote: Then doesn't it make sense to have a proper necropsy done to find out what the underlying problem is? Wouldn't one want to know? Many talk about culling the weak, or just letting them die, but no one seems interested in finding out what the cause of the illness was. Maybe I'm in the minority for wanting to know?
Here's the issue: I don't have any worm shedders. I have only seen one round worm in a processed bird in the last 4 years. And that was a cockrel. If I did have a bird that was not thrifty, she would be processed, and I would do a thorough inspection of her entire carcass, including interior of the gut when I processed her.

And, no, it does not make a lick of sense to pay for a necropsy when culling a bird that is not thrifty. If a bird is simply being removed from the flock because she is not worthy to use as a breeder, why would I choose to do a necropsy? I have better things to be spending my money on. If I had a disease issue, if suddenly my flock was getting sick... that's entirely a different issue, but... that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about routine culling in the flock to maintain a healthy flock that does not have problems with any illness.

I have a friend who is a doctor. He says that his colleagues banter about the patient who comes in for an office visit, and is in good health. Needs no medications, has no issues. The administration would say... if the patient has no issues to treat, you haven't done enough testing. Do enough testing, and you will find something that you can treat. This is the way medical practices are run, and this is the way veterinarian practices are run. I'm painting with a broad brush here, and going to stir up an other hornet's nest. But, this has been my experience when dealing with the medical profession and with veterinarian practices.

We're talking about chickens. I have 2 items in my poultry emergency kit: Poultry Nutri-Drench, and a broom stick.

Quote: Agreed.

Quote: I would think that good management practices would include diagnostics, especially when people *are* suggesting that birds only get an overload of worms when they have an underlying problem.

As for hundreds of dollars, wormers and fecals are cheap, and many states offer low cost or free necropsies. Sure, some states do charge a lot, but even those that do charge will sometimes waive the fee if one explains their financial situation.
I don't know what state you live in where a free necropsy would be offered, or what you consider to be low cost. But, I imagine that if I asked for a free necropsy in my state due to "financial hardship," I'd be the joke of the day in that office. I'm just curious, how many of us have actually seen a bird with worm overload when culling a non thrifty bird? This question is being asked of only the flock owners who routinely cull in their flock to benefit the health of the entire flock, to remove the weaker, not thriving birds. I'm guessing that these birds are actually very rare, because the flock is culled before any birds can become overloaded.

 

[casportpony]

Quote: Quote:
Then doesn't it make sense to have a proper necropsy done to find out what the underlying problem is? Wouldn't one want to know? Many talk about culling the weak, or just letting them die, but no one seems interested in finding out what the cause of the illness was. Maybe I'm in the minority for wanting to know?
Here's the issue: I don't have any worm shedders. I have only seen one round worm in a processed bird in the last 4 years. And that was a cockrel. If I did have a bird that was not thrifty, she would be processed, and I would do a thorough inspection of her entire carcass, including interior of the gut when I processed her.

And, no, it does not make a lick of sense to pay for a necropsy when culling a bird that is not thrifty. If a bird is simply being removed from the flock because she is not worthy to use as a breeder, why would I choose to do a necropsy? I have better things to be spending my money on. If I had a disease issue, if suddenly my flock was getting sick... that's entirely a different issue, but... that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about routine culling in the flock to maintain a healthy flock that does not have problems with any illness.

I have a friend who is a doctor. He says that his colleagues banter about the patient who comes in for an office visit, and is in good health. Needs no medications, has no issues. The administration would say... if the patient has no issues to treat, you haven't done enough testing. Do enough testing, and you will find something that you can treat. This is the way medical practices are run, and this is the way veterinarian practices are run. I'm painting with a broad brush here, and going to stir up an other hornet's nest. But, this has been my experience when dealing with the medical profession and with veterinarian practices.

We're talking about chickens. I have 2 items in my poultry emergency kit: Poultry Nutri-Drench, and a broom stick.

Quote: Agreed.

Quote: I would think that good management practices would include diagnostics, especially when people *are* suggesting that birds only get an overload of worms when they have an underlying problem.

As for hundreds of dollars, wormers and fecals are cheap, and many states offer low cost or free necropsies. Sure, some states do charge a lot, but even those that do charge will sometimes waive the fee if one explains their financial situation.
I don't know what state you live in where a free necropsy would be offered, or what you consider to be low cost. But, I imagine that if I asked for a free necropsy in my state due to "financial hardship," I'd be the joke of the day in that office. I'm just curious, how many of us have actually seen a bird with worm overload when culling a non thrifty bird? This question is being asked of only the flock owners who routinely cull in their flock to benefit the health of the entire flock, to remove the weaker, not thriving birds. I'm guessing that these birds are actually very rare, because the flock is culled before any birds can become overloaded.

Many states offer free. Mine used to do chickens, waterfowl, and turkeys for free, but gamebirds were $120. If you asked nicely, they wold waive the fee for gamebirds. They aren't anymore, now it's $20 per submission (1-2 birds),

State vets:
http://www.usaha.org/Portals/6/StateAnimalHealthOfficials.pdf

Labs:
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf

Poop Tests - Veterinary Parasitology Laboratory​

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:
None for me...and that's hundreds upon hundreds of chickens killed over 40 yrs of keeping flocks and killing them for food and to maintain quality. The one bird I actually DID find worms in came back to me from a horrible place of care, but she was not in poor condition...on the contrary, she was fat as a tick and glossy as all get out...she was in better shape than most of the other birds that came back from that horrible place. She had a small load of tapeworms inside, the first I've ever seen a worm inside of a chicken's intestines in all those years. First and last...and I examine most intestines of the birds I kill, but all of them I cull for not maintaining good conditioning.

She was a nonlayer, big eater, had a wry tail....but glossy and fat all the same. She was culled for nonlaying, for being a loner...none of the other birds wanted her around and kept her separate when flocking out on range, for excess feed consumption,and for her wry tail. The flock obviously knew more than us humans about animals carrying parasite loads or having latent disabilities...they didn't want to socialize with her and even the rooster would drive her away.

This is a case of carrying an acceptable load of parasites....






The fat on her carcass.....




Wry tail, twisted spine....





And the total number of tapeworms found in her intestines.....

 

[KuneKune]

Gross!!

 

[KuneKune]

And cool at the same time :/

 

[plantcity]

I put a pinch of food grade DE powder in their food every few months and that takes care of most everything.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Deleted

 

[casportpony]

Quote: I'm just curious, how many of us have actually seen a bird with worm overload when culling a non thrifty bird? This question is being asked of only the flock owners who routinely cull in their flock to benefit the health of the entire flock, to remove the weaker, not thriving birds. I'm guessing that these birds are actually very rare, because the flock is culled before any birds can become overloaded.

None for me...and that's hundreds upon hundreds of chickens killed over 40 yrs of keeping flocks and killing them for food and to maintain quality. The one bird I actually DID find worms in came back to me from a horrible place of care, but she was not in poor condition...on the contrary, she was fat as a tick and glossy as all get out...she was in better shape than most of the other birds that came back from that horrible place. She had a small load of tapeworms inside, the first I've ever seen a worm inside of a chicken's intestines in all those years. First and last...and I examine most intestines of the birds I kill, but all of them I cull for not maintaining good conditioning.

She was a nonlayer, big eater, had a wry tail....but glossy and fat all the same. She was culled for nonlaying, for being a loner...none of the other birds wanted her around and kept her separate when flocking out on range, for excess feed consumption,and for her wry tail. The flock obviously knew more than us humans about animals carrying parasite loads or having latent disabilities...they didn't want to socialize with her and even the rooster would drive her away.

This is a case of carrying an acceptable load of parasites....







The fat on her carcass.....




Wry tail, twisted spine....





And the total number of tapeworms found in her intestines.....


Excellent picture of tapeworms...probably the best I've seen on the web! A definite save to the old hard drive.

 

[casportpony]

Here are a cecal worm that I found in the poop of a rooster:

Edited to add:
Other stringy stuff is grass,