Toes stiff, wont bend

[Sheriloo3]

Yes the sloughing scales on the healthy tissue are completely normal. The scales will grow back, but probably not until she molts again.

Once her toes detach and the remaining live tissue heals, she will not be in pain, and will be able to do most everything she could do before. (Except for the possible exception of roosting, depending on how many toes she loses.) You can decide if you think she needs extra wrapping/padding for better comfort and mobility once healing is complete.

There are several ongoing threads here on byc where chickens have lost their feet due to frostbite. Their healing and recovery is ongoing, but they are going to be fine.

This is the story of my hen who got frostbite in February 2021 and lost her feet last spring.

Thread 'Matilda is going to lose her feet. ' https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/matilda-is-going-to-lose-her-feet.1454933/

I literally just finished reading that thread! Now that I have a better idea of what the issue is, I've found lots of posts that have very useful information. I was sure it had to be an injury from their high roosting practices, the thought never crossed my mind it could be frostbite. I was trying to find everything I could about different leg injuries, frostbite was not one of them till after I took the pictures and really thought about it more.

Shes such a good little bird, and I'm really hoping all this leads to a happy ending. She is welcome to stay in the house for as long as she needs to, but my hope is that she is well enough to go back out sooner than later, as I know she misses her friends and family outside. I have a camera in the barn (to spy on new egg layers this year and figure out who is laying!) And I turn the volume up for her to hear the chatter and she gets very alert and excited when she hears them! It's quite funny!!

Thank you for your advice and for posting such a thorough thread about your experience!

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

To tell you the truth i couldn't be certain from the photos that her problem is a result of frostbite, due to her feathery shanks and dark skin color. Other than two toes on the Uninjured foot, the "injured" toes to my eye didnt look swollen yet. Which simply means the mostly internal process of auto-amputation is incomplete and ongoing. I was mostly going off what you said: 1)Toes are completely stiff and inflexible 2) The foot that she doesn't put on the ground appears atrophied 3) You questioned if frostbite could be the reason for her injury 4) Two toes on her "uninjured" foot appeared swollen in the photo. (If they are in fact swollen and not due to the camera angle, those will likely be the first two toes she loses.)

The cause of the injury isn't important at this point; there are other ways birds have lost toes and feet other than frostbite. Frostbite is just by far the most common. However the injury happened, if her toes are rigid and appear atrophied, blood flow was lost and she will lose them.

I am glad you found useful info on Matilda's thread and on other threads too. And I understand perfectly what you mean "She is such a good little bird." (Btw what is her name?) People have lauded me for my care of Matilda, but they don't comprehend how much joy she has returned to me. Such close and frequent interaction allows us to know the true depth, range and personality of a chicken. Please keep this thread updated and let us know how she is doing.

 

[Sheriloo3]

To tell you the truth i couldn't be certain from the photos that her problem is a result of frostbite, due to her feathery shanks and dark skin color. Other than two toes on the Uninjured foot, the "injured" toes to my eye didnt look swollen yet. Which simply means the mostly internal process of auto-amputation is incomplete and ongoing. I was mostly going off what you said: 1)Toes are completely stiff and inflexible 2) The foot that she doesn't put on the ground appears atrophied 3) You questioned if frostbite could be the reason for her injury 4) Two toes on her "uninjured" foot appeared swollen in the photo. (If they are in fact swollen and not due to the camera angle, those will likely be the first two toes she loses.)

The cause of the injury isn't important at this point; there are other ways birds have lost toes and feet other than frostbite. Frostbite is just by far the most common. However the injury happened, if her toes are rigid and appear atrophied, blood flow was lost and she will lose them.

I am glad you found useful info on Matilda's thread and on other threads too. And I understand perfectly what you mean "She is such a good little bird." (Btw what is her name?) People have lauded me for my care of Matilda, but they don't comprehend how much joy she has returned to me. Such close and frequent interaction allows us to know the true depth, range and personality of a chicken. Please keep this thread updated and let us know how she is doing.

I took a closer look at the other foot again and the toes in question do look a little chubbier towards the end but I wouldn't say "swollen". I suppose I could be wrong, but time will tell I suppose.

The other foot looks a like more icky today. I don't see the telltale swelling yet, but more of the scales are peeling up in the area between her toes and it does look a little puffy. If I was able to get those scales off, I assume I would be able to see it better, so im going to keep soaking her feet to see if it helps loosen those scales up so we csn get a better look at what's going on underneath.

Her name is Pepper, by the way. We had another bird a couple years ago, that looked similar to her. She passed after making a poor choice (she flew out of the run, into a tall tree to roost for the night and wouldn't come down. An owl or something got her, as the only thing left of her in the morning was a small scattering of feathers on the ground below where she roosted ). My dtr decided that it would be nice to nake her Pepper as well, as she reminded her of the original, which was her favorite little bird.

I will for sure keep you updated on how she's doing and her progress. She's still in good spirit and is till being a good girl in the house.

Thanks again for your help and advice!

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

Your mention of Pepper's toes losing their scales caused me to have a question I didn't know the answer to. Yes it is normal for a bird to lose scales just above the line of demarcation (the "line" separating irreversibly damaged tissue from healthy tissue), but I don't know Why birds lose scales from the healthy tissue. Still seeking that answer.

I was hesitant to make a judgement on her "uninjured foot" photo since pictures can sometimes be deceiving. But the swelling combined with scale loss on the uninjured foot points to possibility she will lose those toes too. (I hope I am wrong.) Either way your Pepper will be fine because she has a human who adores her.

 

[Sheriloo3]

Your mention of Pepper's toes losing their scales caused me to have a question I didn't know the answer to. Yes it is normal for a bird to lose scales just above the line of demarcation (the "line" separating irreversibly damaged tissue from healthy tissue), but I don't know Why birds lose scales from the healthy tissue. Still seeking that answer.

I was hesitant to make a judgement on her "uninjured foot" photo since pictures can sometimes be deceiving. But the swelling combined with scale loss on the uninjured foot points to possibility she will lose those toes too. (I hope I am wrong.) Either way your Pepper will be fine because she has a human who adores her.

Yes she does!! Haha! If I have to build her something to help with her mobility, I certainly will, but I'm hoping that isn't the case.

She is doing well still, no decline in her health at all. The toes are all still there on both feet, though I have noticed her getting annoyed with the right foot. She keeps picking at it, which I can only assume it might be itchy or bothersome in another way. I know some wounds tend to get itchy as they heal so thats my guess.

Otherwise, we are just playing the waiting game at this point. I'm going to set her up with a pen outside, by herself, as the weather has been really nice this week and it would be beneficial for her to get some fresh air. She's lived outside her whole life, with a big family, and I'm sure she is bored out of her mind right now, as she follows me wherever I go, and makes a racket if I leave the room!! Hahaa!! Again, she is a good little bird. I really hope the end of this story is a happy one!!

 

[Sheriloo3]

Yes she does!! Haha! If I have to build her something to help with her mobility, I certainly will, but I'm hoping that isn't the case.

She is doing well still, no decline in her health at all. The toes are all still there on both feet, though I have noticed her getting annoyed with the right foot. She keeps picking at it, which I can only assume it might be itchy or bothersome in another way. I know some wounds tend to get itchy as they heal so thats my guess.

Otherwise, we are just playing the waiting game at this point. I'm going to set her up with a pen outside, by herself, as the weather has been really nice this week and it would be beneficial for her to get some fresh air. She's lived outside her whole life, with a big family, and I'm sure she is bored out of her mind right now, as she follows me wherever I go, and makes a racket if I leave the room!! Hahaa!! Again, she is a good little bird. I really hope the end of this story is a happy one!!

A little update. I am seeing the first telltale signs of swelling around the three toes on her right foot. A little hard to see in thr pic, but it is certainly there. Will it get red or angry at all? Or just pugf like it is? I'm preparing myself for what's to come, though I'm not looking forward to picking up toes from her crate one morning... ick..

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

The toes won't get "red or angry" unless they get infected. And risk of infection is very low as long as you keep her in clean and dry bedding/flooring. The live tissue will likely swell up more before the toes fall off. When the dead toes detach, the healthy live tissue remaining at the point of detachment will be exposed and subject to infection for a few days. I wrapped my hen's stumps for the first few days after the feet came off. Once the ends "scabbed" over (It's actually called eschar), I left her feet uncovered but kept them clean and dry until they completely healed.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

Have you seen any changes re the two inner toes on her left "uninjured" foot? Since the scales came off above the lower part those toes too, combined with the fact the scale-less healthy tissue appeared slightly swollen, I'm still thinking she may lose the lower part of those toes.

 

[Sheriloo3]

Have you seen any changes re the two inner toes on her left "uninjured" foot? Since the scales came off above the lower part those toes too, combined with the fact the scale-less healthy tissue appeared slightly swollen, I'm still thinking she may lose the lower part of those toes.

I haven't seen any difference in those toes at all. Im pretty sure that's just the way her toes are on that foot. Everything moves as it should, and other than the peeling scales, everything else looks normal. I do agree that there is a bit more "meat" past the first knuckle than the rest, but it doesn't appear to be swelling, just the way her toes are built. Again, I could be wrong and we will find out soon, I'd expect, but I think those toes might be ok.

On another note, I spent some time last night, re-fashioning a standard size chicken diaper that I had on hand, in hopes that it fits her now. If it works as planned, I'll post some pics!! Haha!

 

[Sheriloo3]

An update on miss Pepper.

She still has all her toes, she is still just as clingy, chatty and well behaved as before. She is laying almost daily in her kennel (a good sign that she's feeling ok otherwise).

She did lose both her "thumb" nails recently, which I found to be odd, as her thumbs didn't seem to be part of any issues. One came off one day, the other the next. Just the nail. Odd.

The pad on the right foot is still mildly swollen, no real changes over the last week or so. I'm just waiting to wake her up one morning and have her hop out sans toes but it has not happened yet.

The left foot still looks the same as it did, so im not really concerned about losing anything there.

She has been far more mobile, as she seems to have at least figured out how to balance on a foot that she can't really feel. She hops a lot, buy also walks with both feet for a time, until she trips over those toes.

All in all, she's pretty healthy and happy. Not causing too much trouble and no real updates on the toes for now. Just thought I'd check in with a progress report!