Too many chicks keep dying

[EldritchAcres]

Hello!
I wouldn't call myself incredibly experienced, I raise chicks maybe 3 times a year and have had chickens for awhile, more seriously the past 7 years or so.
I've read some threads on here and I know without a necropsy it's hard to tell but I'm just wondering if anyone has advice they can offer or ideas.

I've been purchasing Ayam Cemanis, I have a wonderful breeder near me and also got some from another reputable breeder. I've gotten all of them under the age of one week and have had about 8. All of them except one have died over the course of the past few weeks. I don't know their exact ages, they're not fully feathered but nearly.

I work from home so I can check them often and do. They've all been found dead hours after they looked fine.
-My brooder set up is a 2 tier ferret cage. The top tier is set up for the chick brooder, the bottom is usually storage.
-I have a hanging feeder they can reach, and hanging water they can reach, both free of bedding.
-Bedding is sweet PDZ, it is changed every other day, if not daily. The plastic tray is rinsed and scrubbed.
-There is a chick plate, I check as they grow that they can touch the plate and keep warm. There has only been a max of 4 chicks in the brooder at a time so there is not overcrowding.
-They have probiotics mixed in their water and it is changed daily.
-The brooder is predator proof, it's in a locked horse stall and also closed up in a barn with my LGD stationed around the perimeter.
-They are also kept away from the rest of my flock.

The chicks have been found dead under the heat plate or just dead in the brooder. I've got them at varying times this spring/early summer and each batch, I just end up losing them and the percentage of loss is just too high. I've tried medicated feed with one group and there was no difference.
I don't know what on earth I could be goofing up and I'm at a loss.

 

[yakitori]

Do you raise all your other chicks the same way?

 

[EldritchAcres]

Do you raise all your other chicks the same way?

I'm not as careful honestly, but otherwise yes.
After I lost a few, I changed the waterer. I was using a hampster style waterer and thought maybe it was harder for them.
I also didn't clean it as often, maybe every 5 days. But if I use anything it's dawn dish soap and I rinse it thoroughly.

 

[Sarahh_Janeyy]

Is PDZ a common bedding for chicks? I was afraid they'd eat it and not their food or get impacted? I had made them a dust box with PDZ and diatomaceous earth but removed it when I saw them trying to eat it.

You said probiotics- is this also with electrolytes?

 

[EldritchAcres]

Is PDZ a common bedding for chicks? I was afraid they'd eat it and not their food or get impacted? I had made them a dust box with PDZ and diatomaceous earth but removed it when I saw them trying to eat it.

You said probiotics- is this also with electrolytes?

I'm actually not sure, they've been on it for at least 2a week this time around, but maybe they did eat it. I can change it to something larger.
I didn't use electrolyes, used probiotics. I can try electrolytes!

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/sav-a-chick-probiotic-supplement-017-oz-pack-of-3

 

[Sarahh_Janeyy]

I think they need electrolytes more than probiotics - I recently had to bring my dying chick to the vet (they saved her) and the vet said he's very conservative and feels that the kinds of probiotics chickens need aren't proven? That said, I still gave bene-bac to another chicken that was found to have low-no gut bacteria load, which was needed for her to absorb her vitamins.

For this batch of chicks I used nutri drench poultry for the first few days and then I also gave them rooster booster electrolytes. My first chicks, I used the save a chick electrolytes AND probiotics, but I gave them more of the electrolytes than the probiotics.

My chicks are currently on hemp bedding. I assume you are trying to keep things very clean, which is why they are on the PDZ - I'm not sure if you can get hemp bedding locally where you are, I had to order online, but it's very absorbent. The first time we had chicks we used the common aspen bedding but it was SO DUSTY. Everything in my office (where the brooder was) was covered in a good layer of wood dust by the end of it. You *could* use puppy pads, we have some under the hemp bedding, but I have heard of people's chicks scratching up and eating them by accident, so we are keeping a close eye on their behavior.

 

[Tonyroo]

Can you educate yourself on proper setup for chicks. There's posts and articles on here to guide you. Remember they are babies and they are learning. So you not guiding them in the brooder or monitoring them makes for high risk of death.

 

[Sarahh_Janeyy]

Are they definitely drinking from the hanging waterer? You have to teach the chicks to drink the water at first so they might have a hard time drinking from a rodent waterer. You said you changed it - what did you change it to?

 

[yakitori]

I’d presume they are drinking since they are taking weeks to die. Chicks can’t survive without water for a few days. Sweet pdz is non toxic, Im not sure if its okay to be ingested innlarger amounts, but I’m sure that if the birds experience a crop issue, OP would notice lethargy before they died. It’s the sudden death thing described that has me stumped.

To rule out a few possibilities... I would change out the bedding, waterer and heating plate. Sometimes sitting with the chicks for a good half an hour can be telling about their behavior and you’ll catch things you won’t be able to see in passing.

What feed are you using?

Personally, the set up is too clean for me. I’m a big believer that animals should be exposed to bacteria and the outside world to build immunity It’s how chickens would do it if they raised their own kids... so that’s how I’m doing it.

 

[yakitori]

I remembered sweet pdz being quite dusty and came across this thread.....
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/sweet-pdz-zeolite-dust.677364/

Pulling from one of the responses:
“However, when zeolites are ground into a fine powder -- "micronized" -- manufacturers and retailers promise this allows them to be absorbed into the bloodstream. If these fine-ground zeolite materials are going into the blood, then they are almost certainly adding lead and aluminum to the blood, since those two elements are substantially present in zeolites.”

I haven’t looked into this myself, so the while the above sound credible it may or may not be true. I think you should definitely look into it though.

Normally pdz is sprinkled into and used with other bedding. But using such large quantities with animals living in extremely close proximity to it, breathing, eating, sleeping and playing in it... i’d say that’s a significant cause for concern