Topic of the Week - Aggressive Roosters: What is the best way to handle them?

[Cari C]

I have to say, you all are alright in my book. SO happy I found this bunch of chicken people!!!

 

[Lisa Wood]

Hey Lisa, thanks for your reflections.

I am happy to talk more about the word rape in context to human anthropomorphizing onto animals and our perceptions. There are many human communities removed from our first world (academic or otherwise) culture in which men routinely choose the women they will marry without that woman's consent. In those societies, there is often no concept of rape, though in our own first world, highly educated societies, we see these "primitive" actions as wrong. We encourage the education of people, especially women, in "sub-standard" situations (like child brides), and help to raise the standards of living all over the world through literacy and women's education.
Now, we cannot do the same with dolphins, or silver back gorillas, or chickens (though some people try). I'm sure a hen or two have been forced often, even "gang raped" in some instances, but the "victimized" hen does not process this experience as we humans do. She does not have years of therapy and the need for condolences from her aggressors. The hen gets up, shakes off, and moves on to feeding, drinking, scratching, and maybe some egg laying. This is an important distinction which separates humans from our animal counterparts. For the hen, survival trumps the emotional narrative we would put on that bird, or dolphin, or lioness who has just had her cubs eaten by the new male in town. The entire pride gets why (genetic superiority), and will recover in ways no human mother or family who looses a child to violence ever can. It's amazing, and greatly underestimated by our human emotions, which we constantly project on our animals to better feel them. It's natural for us, but not the animals, and that's the distinction I would like to make now. 

cheers! 

Thanks for your definition of rape. My definition or publication of the word may not be exactly correct comma but that does not mean I won't use it. I did I gave you is it in sarcastic comical way comma because I'm not really sure how else to describe it with chickens.

 

[Lisa Wood]

Thanks for your definition of rape. My definition or publication of the word may not be exactly correct comma but that does not mean I won't use it. I did I gave you is it in sarcastic comical way comma because I'm not really sure how else to describe it with chickens.

Oops. Please forgive me I hit submit too quickly and the above post is a mess. But I am also confused about the education of women and child Brides? When you say we want to educate them and raise their standard of living, who is the we you're talking about? Are you referring to the US government? Some organization that helps these types of child brides and women? Are you talking about child brides in US or abroadend different cultures of women in the United States or abroad, or both? I'm just a little confused again, which is a state I am in quite often. I just dont get how that ties into saying my chicken was raped?

 

[ShrekDawg]

Kelsey, and the rest of you who have given your help, Day 1 of trying to catch and carry my rooster was a mixed bag. My backyard is much bigger than it was before I decided to do this and he is much faster than I thought possible. I put on my rain boots to protect my feet and oddly enough it was raining too. Anyhow, I had a towel with me and used it quietly, to herd him into my feed area. It only has a 4' pony wall and over the top he went, twice. I never ran after him, but he made me work and I realized that he could get behind my smaller coop, that was disheartening. I blocked his entrance, but he flew over that too. Our cat & mouse game went on for at least 15 minutes, neither of us acting aggressively, I was cool as a cucumber. He ended up running into my larger walk-in coop, I followed and shut the door behind me. He made a huge fuss, bashing the wire trying to get out, and I dropped the towel over him, I was not tentative about picking him up at all, but he was so worked up the towel didn't last one second, he was like an animal caught in a trap. :cd I decided he was going to hurt himself and I stopped, waited for him to settle then I opened the door and stepped out. He walked out a few seconds after I did and that was all she wrote. I stood for a bit, making sure he was ok, not overly stressed and then I finished my chores and walked in the house. Comments are welcome. What a handsome guy and thank you for sharing your experiences! I really appreciate the honesty.

I forgot to ask this question - Do you think it would do any good if I went out there as they start to roost for the night and pick him up off his perch, hold him for a bit? I know I can do that, but would it count? I kept thinking about you saying try to catch him in mid-air, as he flew by my head, and I laughed. I am not very athletic and he apparently is!

Yes, that is definitely the challenge! When I started out catching them in this manner, it was in a smaller 12x17 rectangular introduction pen with a net over the top, so it's nothing like the size of your backyard! Eventually mine got more catchable- they'll still run around the whole big main run (lots more room to run- I am not faster than a chicken!) but once they feel cornered (I don't mean that in a fear-based way) they stick their faces in the corner and wait to be picked up. I call it the "fine, you got me" stance. Or they run into the coop and I shut the door. I've got a couple of pullets that will jump straight up 6 feet and have no problem tangling with your hair, so while your guy is definitely bigger and heavier, I understand your problem. Those two I can catch at night in the dark off the roost- the board is ineffective-- maybe one of those nets that other people have posted about. Those same girls will come over and follow me around- but try to catch 'em and GONE- like catching a greased pig. I guess that's my next suggestion- wait til it's dark and bring him off the roost. If you succeed in that, I would suggest when you put him back, don't try to put him back on the roost. Place him on the ground or if you've got a half step somewhere for them- lifting them up and away from your body makes taking a wing to the face a much stronger possibility because they're trying to regain their balance. If you give him a little flashlight guidance he'll probably find his way back up.

Ah- sorry, didn't see this post before answering above- IMO yes, it would count because you've got your hands on him. It sounds like tonight was a successful exercise even if the objective wasn't met. You moved him around and he didn't come after you. If you do get him off the roost and he's squirmy- try holding him backwards. Not upside down, facing backwards. A couple my hens are sooo much calmer held and carried this way. Maybe like some horses like to ride backwards in the trailer? This gives me reasonable control over a big chicken- if they kick, it's far enough from my body and in a spot where I can usually control the legs, and keeps the wings pinned- and the beak isn't near your hands or face. It also puts you in a good position to squat and put the feet on the ground while you've still got a good hold on the wings- without your face being in range of the beak as you bend forward to let him go. Fingers under the body between the legs There's the head between my elbow and back.

Day 1 - night time edition. I waited for my son to come home to document. Everyone was sleeping, I took Tobias from his roost and held him and pet him. I forgot that I used to pick him every night and put him in the coop when he was younger. I miss those days. Excuse my tired old self in the photo, please and thank you.

Awesome job with him! I agree with shezandy, including the roost thing, although I wonder if doing it too much would make him paranoid? Probably not i guess. Either way, i thinkthat way will definitely work and he looks pretty calm there! Also it sounds like it was quite the adventure trying to catch him during the day but I'd still recommend trying that if you can. What I'd suggest though, since he's clearly a lot more athletic than either of us predicted (LOL) and we don't want to stress him out for longer than necessary, is if you can I'd see if you can get a fishing net like others have recommended. It will extend your range as well as hopefully preventing all escape possibilities. You can always try the towel too once you catch him. Or is there anyway to attach something cheap to the pony wall? Like plastic snow fence or bird netting or something easy to put up and take down just so he can't jump over? But even just the nighttime holdings I think will improve him. And shezandy, how do you do that hold? I've tried, though maybe not right, and the chickens hated it. I try catching them by them squattinf and me grabbing them, pinning wings and putting them under my arm. But holding the wings with 2 thumbs isn't really enough since the flighty ones flap away

I have to say, you all are alright in my book. SO happy I found this bunch of chicken people!!! e

Aw glad to have you here!!

 

[Lincityfarmette]

CariC glad you got your roo! Nice work and a lot of great thoughts were offered on the whole aggressive rooster issue. Anthropomorphism seems to be a trigger word as is rape though . While an erudite and stimulating discussion vis-a-vis I found it harsh (from both ends) on this forum. Still I would really like to meet you both over a cup of coffee. Uh, not at the same time. So maybe just a tad bit less strident??I love my chickens. I doubt they love me. It 's okay . It is a mutually beneficial relationship. Grateful to the Creator that the world is not all in hues of grey. The rooster thang, it's a canundrum. Was't afraid of Blue Boy but he attacked claws and spurs first. Pain and fear yes, but he is the chicken. Brave is doing something you are afraid to do. So I addressed His issues as necessary for my family 's safety. Now if you want him, I am in LA. Send me a pm.

I would rather he be on the soup than one of us!

 

[Lincityfarmette]

In the soup not on of course...red-faced giggle...

 

[coop410silkies]

Ok, this is like the fourth or fifth time I have read not good to anthropomorphize. Attribute human emotions or logic to animals. I did a paper in college on this word, over 20 years ago. Since then, there are numerous studies prooving that is not exactly true. I will not start giving examples, because of the abundance. I am sure we can just look at elephants and agree, aye?
And while I am expressing my views on a word study, lets talk about using the term "rape" only as it applies to humans. Again, just one.
Dolphins, who can recognize themselves in a mirror, reported to save drowning humans. Young bachelors will group together, maybe three or so, and ABDUCT s female for sexual use. Against her will. Dont let her leave. Is that called "abduction, kidnapping, or rape?" Dolphins are one of the few species like us who have sex for pleasure.

My Roos, in bands or pairs, mount and physically hammer other Roos, in what appears to me to be an expression of male dominance. I don't consider it "normal mating behavior," and I call it rape or gang rape, with no moral implication intended or (hopefully) projected. There just isn't a word for it, and I consider it a male behavior pattern (though hens can do the same). My male box turtles also do this, singly, to other males. I think it's normal behavior, but not for mating. My Roos gang up on certain hens, as well, and I don't think this is normal mating behavior, either. Animals in captivity have different ways of behaving, maybe, possibly because they are adapting to different stressors. Nowadays I keep my hen-aggressive Roos penned up and unavailable to the flock, and I will keep separate those Roos that seem at risk of being killed by the others. That is, of course, if I need them for breeding. The bummers go to freezer camp: no need to get personal with one's Roosters.

 

[newhamplover]

I am going to offer a few more of my thoughts on aggressive roos. I think a lot of it with young ones are they are so unsure of themselves. They are trying to find their place, become confident adults. The more confident any animal is the happier it is & so are we in dealing with it. Anything we can do to help it become all it can be is in everyone's best interest. That is why I always announce myself around all animals. I clap, talk, they sure know I'm there!!! Think about it. Predators are silent. If we go about them in silence then it can spook & put them on guard instantly. The same thing if we are in the house & someone comes in, we don't know it, & for a minute we are startled. If whoever hollars as they are coming in we are at ease. If they are startled hackles can go up & they are on the defensive. Chickens are the most defenseless creatures. Even with the horses I always entered the barn talking, they knew I was coming. Putting animals & people too at ease goes a long was in building trust. And after trust comes true bonding. Bonding is the part I really love. That is the part that you know exactly how it will respond & it knows exactly how you will respond. That is the part that takes a long time to build but oh how sweet.

 

[leafhopperfarm]

Quote:
Great question on clarity, though this may not be quite the place in the chicken forums;
the "we" refers to first world nations who interpret other cultures "primitive" ways (all in judgments based off what are most likely western values) which dictate that women are subordinate in cultures where they are less educated. Rural parts of India is a great example I used regarding child brides, there is international work being done to reach these young women, educate them, and bring their standard of living up to prevent more child brides. Though it is now illegal in India to marry off under age women, the custom persists due to other social expectations placed on families, usually in poorer, less educated parts of the country. I used a lot of quotations in my original post to allude to the fact that western ways are projected onto other cultures often interpreting the cultural situations as "primitive" or "uneducated" to begin with. For the birds, there is no ability to educate and empower, so the anthropomorphizing around their feelings is really about our own human emotions, not what the bird is actually experiencing.

 

[centrarchid]

I am going to offer a few more of my thoughts on aggressive roos.  I think a lot of it with young ones are they are so unsure of themselves.  They are trying to find their place, become confident adults.  The more confident any animal is the happier it is & so are we in dealing with it.  Anything we can do to help it become all it can be is in everyone's best interest.  That is why I always announce myself around all animals. I clap, talk, they sure know I'm there!!!  Think about it.  Predators are silent.  If we go about them in silence then it can spook & put them on guard instantly.   The same thing if we are in the house & someone comes in, we don't know it, & for a minute we are startled. If whoever hollars as they are coming in we are at ease.  If they are startled hackles can go up & they are on the defensive. Chickens are the most defenseless creatures.  Even with the horses I always entered the barn talking, they knew I was coming.  Putting animals & people too at ease goes a long was in building trust.  And after trust comes true bonding.  Bonding is the part I really love.  That is the part that you know exactly how it will respond & it knows exactly how you will respond.  That is the part that takes a long time to build but oh how sweet.

Mine do not a have a confidence issue. Rather, they have a learning curve to go through even when components are hardwired by instinct as practice makes for better performance later. The clumsiness of their "aggression" comes from the mental software not being set. In some ways the aggression may be a mechanism that promotes dispersal from natal group (when that was an option in wild fowl) and an enabler for young males engaging in cuckoldry where very brief bouts of aggression make the covering of an unwilling female more likely.