Traditional Serama

[ocseramas]

That took some serious time to compare all of that! Thank you for your work.

 

[Laingcroft]

I have to see things side by side to see the differences - like comparing paint chips; what is ecru and what is taupe?

As for the Serama, I find American, Traditional and Malaysian not as easily visualized or descriptive as the Ayam Malaysian style/type designations of "dragon," (picture the Mortal Kombat logo), "apple" (a nice Red Delicious with broadly rounded top tapering to solid bottom), "ball" ('nuff said) and "slim" (a vertical upright image - though in my mind, lacking that puffed out chest)

Since the first image of Serama I saw was the line drawing in the 'American' standard, that's what will be Serama type for me - of course I do like the more "cocky" puffed up pose of the Malaysian type with the vertical (90 degree) line of the American. My littlest chick may well be Malaysian in posture if not type...he puffs himself up so much when challenged by another that he frequently falls back on his teakettle. So very funny.

 

[smoothmule]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/632695/auction-12-serama-hatching-eggs

We're going to Orlando in March so I was figuring up when I had to stop setting eggs in order for them to hatch either a few days before we leave and I can set some to hatch a few days after we're to return. My son will be here to tend things and my other son will come by and check too but I didn't want them hatching while I'm not here so I may offer some hatching eggs for sale. The girls have slowed up a lot but I'm still getting a few a day so I'm pretty sure I can come up with at least a dozen to sell so they don't sit around and go to waste. My colors are black, blue, chocolate, silver, mottled and "other". I am going to post them on the SCNA website in the marketplace and they will be shipped 3/06/12 I'll ship how ever many I have on hand but will make sure there are no less than a dozen. I've always sent plenty of extra's.

 

[lonestargame]

The FIRST TABLE-TOP SERAMA SHOW in TEXAS

5th Annual "Fancy Feathers 4-H Open Chicken Show
APA/ABA/SCNA sanctioned
March 10, 2012
Comal County Fairgrounds
701 Common Street, New Braunfels, TX

http://lssserama.webs.com

 

[N.WChickenGuy]

The difference between American and traditional Serama as explained to me by OCSerama

American can be shown at an ABA.APA show in cage judging and not be DQ'd. Earlobes must be red, legs yellow (swarthy ok for black) and beak yellow. They show AOV. Traditional have white earlobes, etc. and are non-standard. They are DQ's in cage judging with white earlobes, dark legs, etc. 4H, FFA must have American or they are DQ'd because ABA/APA standards apply. Traiditional is something conjured up by Jerry. They are wonderful pets and can still show table top as SCNA table top rules state we are color blind. The real issue comes in when showing in conjunction with or alone at an ABA.APA show.

 

[Laingcroft]

WARNING! Long reply

First, I think the use of the word "conjure" is inappropriate as it implies trickery or deceit, as in making up something from nothing, which is not the case.

Since I've 'discovered' the Serama, I've been doing a bit of research so I can have solid information when people ask about them. There aren't many here in Virginia and I plan to show them off at every opportunity - grin.

Here's a brief compilation from my notes - feel free to add or correct.

The breed of chicken we know as Serama was developed at some point during the 1970s. The original breeder is identified as Wee Yean Een and he chose the name Ayam Serama for his birds. In the Kelantan state of Malaysia, ayam is the word for chicken. Serama supposedly is a phonetic or westernization of Sri Rama which is alternately attributed to the Thai king or shadow plays of the Ramayana. I haven't found anything referencing a character Sri Rama as part of the plays; however, I did find quite a bit about the Thai monarchy. Sri is actually an honorific equivalent to "Lord" and Rama is the heroic incarnation of the Hindu God Vishnu.

As in the Western world, the original authority of kings comes from God (hence the reason coronations occur in cathedrals presided over by popes or equivalent.) To reinforce their divine authority, the kings of Siam (Thailand) took the names of their gods i.e. Indra, Shiva, Vishnu/Rama. The Chakri dynasty of Thailand (Siam) began in 1782 with Rama I. In spite of the dissolution of monarchy as absolute ruler/head of state in 1932, Rama I's descendant, King Bhumibol (Rama IX), is the current monarch as of late 2011. He is apparently a very popular monarch as well as a long lived one. He was "crowned" in 1950. Interestingly enough, he was born in Cambridge, Massachusetts during his father's exile.

If literally translated, Ayam Serama or Sri Rama means Lord Rama's chicken. In it's homeland and on the day it reached these shores, the foundation stock contained a variety of colors and types. This is the ORIGINAL (my word) Serama in North America. Others would have to confirm what the breed was called on the day it arrived, but I imagine that it was designated "American Serama" by consensus when a standard was needed by its fanciers interested in APA/ABA sanctioning for poultry shows under the aegis of those organizations. For whatever reason, white was the first color standardized and sanctioned. Since the majority of white chickens (silkies are a notable exception) have red lobes and yellow shanks/toes, the only recognized color variety of American Serama also have the same requirements (or DQs). I expect that color varieties recognized in the future will follow typical bantam color requirements, which may or may not have red lobes and yellow shanks/toes. I leave that up to the poultry judges/exhibitors/dedicated breeders to determine. Since I am very new to this breed, I missed (thankfully) all the fuss over names, colors, types, etc.

If I understand correctly, the term Traditional is now used to describe every color variety of Serama not sanctioned by the APA/ABA for their (cage) shows - basically, anything not white or frizzled white. As for type, a lot of work seems to have gone into fixing the type described in the standard used for sanctioning i.e. the American Serama standard. At the same time, some fanciers began breeding for more novel colors (double laced cocoapops, etc.) and "micro" sizing. With the wonder of Youtube and other image sources on the internet, fanciers are also able to see the diversity of the Serama as it exists today in Malaysia and are also breeding for one or more of those body types such as "Apple," "Slim," "Ball," or "Dragon." A draft standard has been established for these Malaysian type birds which are alternately referred to as the Ayam Serama or Malaysian Serama. Said standard is actually not too different from the American standard irrespective of color (see earlier posting.)

I understand this all in principal, but it is still rather confusing. If the term American Serama is used to designate color varieties as they gain recognition for APA/ABA sanctioned shows then calling all other Serama simply Serama would be a lot less confusing.

Just my two cents.

As for FFA and 4H, I really would like clarification on this so I don't spread misinformation if asked about birds for 4H, FFA. My current understanding is that the youth are being judged on their knowledge and handling of the birds, the birds themselves are not being judged. In fact it is considered beneficial if the youth exhibitor can point out his/her bird's faults and/or the reason(s) why same are not considered show quality.

 

[Carolynspeeps]

The term Traditional was "conjured" up by one person and applied to the birds that no longer met the required standard as established for the American Serama. For the last 10 years, Serama bred in America have been proudly called American Serama. The name, American Serama, is not a term used specifically for whites. All other colors/varieties the are bred according to the American Serama standard are also considered American Serama. We have had over 500 American Serama entered into ABA/APA shows during the last 6 months in the state of Georgia. All shown both in cage and on Table Top. They were not all white nor were any DQed for their uniqueness of color.

One might consider that when breeding to a specific standard, there will always be birds that do not meet the standard. In the world of poultry these birds are referred to as "culls". Culls can make fabulous pets and in LF they continue to be great layers, they are just not suitable for a breeding program that is working toward the breed standard. Unfortuntely, the word "cull" maintains a negative connotation that limits the price tag one can put on those cull birds. Giving them a fancy name like "Traditional" makes them sound much more valuable.

 

[Rjaym73]

Very good explaination. Not only have all of these new "names" for the American Serama caused much disagreement, but also much confusion for many Serama enthusiast.

 

[Laingcroft]

Great...now I'm confused again.

When I read the American Standard as approved by the APA/ABA I see outlined a specific body type. And it is quite clear that any chicken that does not conform to the ideal body type (or pretty darn close since no bird is perfect) would be considered a "cull." (Note: I have over forty cumulative years of raising and showing dogs/horses/sheep/rabbits - culling is not exclusive to the poultry world.) Further, the so called Malaysian Standard is not so very different from the approved American Standard, again, see comparison in previous post. And finally, if you go back and read the original posting at the start of this thread (no. 2 I believe) it lays out a clear type to be achieved that pretty much describes the same bird as the approved American Serama standard, albeit with lower weight limits and SPECIFIC colors spelled out.

And for me, that's where things get murky --- the whole color issue. The ONLY color variety I see listed IN THE STANDARD is White and can thus be judged by a fixed criteria for color. White variety as described in the standard requires red lobes and yellow shanks/toes

Where SPECIFIC information is not included IN the standard, generalized ABA/APA disqualifications apply as noted below [emphasis added in italics] My questions/comments in blue.

Disqualifications (Color)
FACE: Absolute white in any male or female of any breed of bantams where red ear lobes are set as standard. (American Serama standard states as to type "small, oval, fitting closely to head" no color reference except as shown under white variety) Does this automatically set a default of red lobes and yellow shank/toes for all future color varieties?
EAR LOBES: Absolute enamel white in all breeds where red is a standard requirement. See above.
SHANKS & TOES: Any color other than that described for the breed or variety. Here a distinction is made between breed and variety - they are not one and the same under the standard per this differentiation. Once again, no reference is made in the standard as to color of toes/shanks EXCEPT for the white variety. No discrimination is to be made for slight reddish pigment in yellow shanked varieties. Solid black legs in yellow legged blacks, barreds or blues. Has a black/blue/barred color variety been standardized and approved as to yellow (swarthy allowed) yet? If not, then culls cannot be determined based on color at this point in time.
PLUMAGE: See individual color pattern descriptions for disqualifications. Again, no other color variety described in the existing standard.

I'm NOT denigrating the American Serama - the standard quite clearly portrays the ideal Serama type and I happen to like the chicken it describes -- except as to color. I personally like variety - if I wanted white chickens that are egg laying machines I'd have only Leghorns. (I'm not denigrating Leghorns either...for that past dozen years, EEs and barnyard layers have provided me with some nice egg money!) What I, and I'm sure others new to this breed, find confusing is all the semantics over the differing names and slight variations in "standard" type especially when it all seems to boil down to color related DQs.

Traditional by definition is something handed down without formalization through the generations or as a tradition. In its native land, there has been no set standard for the Serama to date, just a conglomeration of types and that's what got off the boat in 2001. Birds of that type are traditional serama. Since you seem to have been involved with Serama for some time, I'm preaching to the choir to say American breeders worked hard to standardize type and frankly are still working hard to get several color varieties to breed true. Some of these varieties may never receive recognition (their developers might not even seek recognition - gasp!) but each has its fan base and they wouldn't be considered culls by those folks at all. I don't see how calling a purple with pink polka dots Serama that has good type (as per the Standard) a Traditional Serama is deceptive; confusing - more likely. And a name is no guarantee of quality; a cull under the American Serama name is just as much a cull as one under the heading Traditional Serama - the price of either can be inflated to someone willing to pay for it.

Whew === heading off to bed now.

 

[Carolynspeeps]

Great...now I'm confused again.

When I read the American Standard as approved by the APA/ABA I see outlined a specific body type. And it is quite clear that any chicken that does not conform to the ideal body type (or pretty darn close since no bird is perfect) would be considered a "cull." (Note: I have over forty cumulative years of raising and showing dogs/horses/sheep/rabbits - culling is not exclusive to the poultry world.) Further, the so called Malaysian Standard is not so very different from the approved American Standard, again, see comparison in previous post. And finally, if you go back and read the original posting at the start of this thread (no. 2 I believe) it lays out a clear type to be achieved that pretty much describes the same bird as the approved American Serama standard, albeit with lower weight limits and SPECIFIC colors spelled out.

And for me, that's where things get murky --- the whole color issue. The ONLY color variety I see listed IN THE STANDARD is White and can thus be judged by a fixed criteria for color. White variety as described in the standard requires red lobes and yellow shanks/toes

Where SPECIFIC information is not included IN the standard, generalized ABA/APA disqualifications apply as noted below [emphasis added in italics] My questions/comments in blue.

Disqualifications (Color)
FACE: Absolute white in any male or female of any breed of bantams where red ear lobes are set as standard. (American Serama standard states as to type "small, oval, fitting closely to head" no color reference except as shown under white variety) Does this automatically set a default of red lobes and yellow shank/toes for all future color varieties? NO!

EAR LOBES: Absolute enamel white in all breeds where red is a standard requirement. See above. I have not ever seen absolute enameled white nor have I seen an AOV bird DQed for having some white.

SHANKS & TOES: Any color other than that described for the breed or variety. Here a distinction is made between breed and variety - they are not one and the same under the standard per this differentiation. Once again, no reference is made in the standard as to color of toes/shanks EXCEPT for the white variety. Currently only White has a color requirement. There is no set color bor the breed.No discrimination is to be made for slight reddish pigment in yellow shanked varieties. Solid black legs in yellow legged blacks, barreds or blues. Has a black/blue/barred color variety been standardized and approved as to yellow (swarthy allowed) yet? If not, then culls cannot be determined based on color at this point in time. The standard for Blacks calls for yellow (swarthy allowed)
PLUMAGE: See individual color pattern descriptions for disqualifications. Again, no other color variety described in the existing standard. Correct, all other colors at this time are entered as AOV (all other variety). This create an easy way for judges to see what the breeders are working on without isolating individual color projects. With so many color options in Serama, AOV covers them all.

I'm NOT denigrating the American Serama - the standard quite clearly portrays the ideal Serama type and I happen to like the chicken it describes -- except as to color. I personally like variety - if I wanted white chickens that are egg laying machines I'd have only Leghorns. (I'm not denigrating Leghorns either...for that past dozen years, EEs and barnyard layers have provided me with some nice egg money!) What I, and I'm sure others new to this breed, find confusing is all the semantics over the differing names and slight variations in "standard" type especially when it all seems to boil down to color related DQs. I also like my colorful little birds. However, this is where the trouble started. The standard as it reads at the top of this page was created by one person. In fact, it was so similar to the existing American Serama standard that it was not approved as a new standard. Unfortunately, as often happens in advertising, if someone says something and presents it in writing enough times, people believe it as a truth. The "Trditional Serama" will never seek recognition by the ABA/APA .

Traditional by definition is something handed down without formalization through the generations or as a tradition. In its native land, there has been no set standard for the Serama to date, just a conglomeration of types and that's what got off the boat in 2001. Birds of that type are traditional serama. After 10 years of intensive breeding to create birds of the type described in the American Standard it seems to be a huge step backward to focus on the unrefined type that will never seek recognition and touts itself as a backyard pet. All Serama make great pets regardless of what you call them, or the quality of their breeding. However, even with lack of good breeding, they are still American Serama. Just as puppy mill Chihuahuas may not meet the standard of their Westminster counterparts, they are all still called Chihuahuas, no new standard created to accommodate them. Since you seem to have been involved with Serama for some time, I'm preaching to the choir to say American breeders worked hard to standardize type and frankly are still working hard to get several color varieties to breed true. Some of these varieties may never receive recognition (their developers might not even seek recognition - gasp!) but each has its fan base and they wouldn't be considered culls by those folks at all. I don't see how calling a purple with pink polka dots Serama that has good type (as per the Standard) a Traditional Serama is deceptive; confusing - more likely. Definitely confusing! And a name is no guarantee of quality; a cull under the American Serama name is just as much a cull as one under the heading Traditional Serama - the price of either can be inflated to someone willing to pay for it.
I suppose I am frustrated most by the confusion created by this unnecessary label for our American Serama. Such sweet little birds. I do hope you enjoy them by whatever name you choose. Hope you got some sleep.

Whew === heading off to bed now.