Transmutación of blue peafowl to green peafowl

[Midnightman14]

Agree that once a spalding always a spalding no matter what a bird looks like on the outside. It's a huge problem in the peafowl world today as many people breed willy nilly and don't work to maintain pure lines of either species.

 

[egelvez]

Agree that once a spalding always a spalding no matter what a bird looks like on the outside. It's a huge problem in the peafowl world today as many people breed willy nilly and don't work to maintain pure lines of either species.

In other birds such as lovebirds(I speak of lovebirds because I raised them and I Know), if done in a serious and controlled manner, the transmutation becomes complete and the mutation is transferred completely to the new species.
That's why my question is why the blue peafowl mutations are not completely transmuted to the green peafowl.
Maybe it has not been done in the correct and controlled way to obtain optimal results?

 

[KsKingBee]

You are confusing mutations with mixing species.

 

[egelvez]

?????

 

[KsKingBee]

Greens are not a mutation of IB's. You are applying rules that only apply within species in particular sub species. Lovebirds, parakeets etc... can be bred to colors and patterns and still be called parakeets or lovebirds at the end of the day. Greens and ib’s are different subs, its like breeding a budgie to a lovebird that is a hybrid.

 

[barkerg]

Greens are not a mutation of IB's. You are applying rules that only apply within species in particular sub species. Lovebirds, parakeets etc... can be bred to colors and patterns and still be called parakeets or lovebirds at the end of the day. Greens and ib’s are different subs, its like breeding a budgie to a lovebird that is a hybrid.

Good answer Sir.

Gerald Barker
Bob’s Green Peafowl

 

[barkerg]

?????

Pavo cristatus aka India Blue are a seperate sub species vs Pavo Muticus aka Green Peafowl. Thus, any combination of the two subs is considered a hybrid. Consider this, the name Pavo is latin which simply means turkey, yes peafowl and turkey are pheasant species, any combination of the two is considered a hybrid. If it were feasible meaning easy to breed, one could hybrid a turkey to a peafowl but, no matter how much you get the offspring to look like a turkey or peafowl, it will never be considered a pure species of either type. @KsKingBee is correct, we should not confuse color/pattern mutations with actual species and its subs. I hope this helps.

Gerald Barker
Bob’s Green Peafowl

 

[egelvez]

then this peacock is not a pure green java Pied?
I think that the breeder did a good trasmutation from the IB Pied to java green.. And we can say that this cock has 98% or more of java green blood.
I mean it would not be spalding Pied, now it's a green Pied.
Or I'm wrong?

Pavo cristatus aka India Blue are a seperate sub species vs Pavo Muticus aka Green Peafowl. Thus, any combination of the two subs is considered a hybrid. Consider this, the name Pavo is latin which simply means turkey, yes peafowl and turkey are pheasant species, any combination of the two is considered a hybrid. If it were feasible meaning easy to breed, one could hybrid a turkey to a peafowl but, no matter how much you get the offspring to look like a turkey or peafowl, it will never be considered a pure species of either type. @KsKingBee is correct, we should not confuse color/pattern mutations with actual species and its subs. I hope this helps.

Gerald Barker
Bob’s Green Peafowl

 

[Dany12]

In the farms ... it's different!
Imagine in nature ... a population of green peacocks ... only greens and in this folk 1 blue peacock!
I believe that in a few generations the genotype of Pavo cristatus will be absorbed.

Why are the Muticus peacocks (spicifer) of western Burma or Manipur in India more blue than the green peacocks from Cambodia or Java which are golden!

A mythical peacock:

 

[Rosa moschata]

Hello friends. I have a doubt .. In other bird species such as lovebirds, if a new mutation appears, it can be transmuted to another species of lovebirds and after breeding for several generations remains 100% purified in the new species.
Why in peafowl is not it? If a new mutation appears in the blue peafowl, it is transmuted to the green peacock but is called spalding and does not become 100% pure in the green peafowl. For example, Why are there no green pied peafowl and we only get to spalding Pied.
If spalding pieds are reproduce with pure greens for several generations will you never get green pieds?
Thanks for the clarifications.

This attitude among cage bird breeders about the results after generations being "pure" is "purely cosmetic" (pun intended). The idea is that if the hybrid offspring -- after enough generations -- can meet a "standard" (such as in a show) for a species, then it's "good enough". You mentioned lovebirds -- the eye-ring species have, in the minds of some parrot fans, been "destroyed" by such breeding. For those unfamiliar, the eye-ring species are Masked, Fischer's, Nyasa, and Black-Cheeked. The blue mutation arose in the Masked, the yellow in the Nyasa, and breeders hybridized those species with the others to "transfer" the mutation. Hybrid offspring were fertile, and were bred back to the species intended to "receive the mutation" over enough generations that eventually offspring could "pass" for the original species. As further mutations arose -- principally in the far more common Masked and Fischer's -- "transmutation" was repeated to "transfer" the mutation into the others, further blurring the lines between the four species.

But even when deemed "successful", it's not erasing hybrid ancestry. When breeders see evidence of hybrid ancestry showing up generations later, it's considered a "fault" by those who accept "transmutation", rather than what it truly is -- evidence that transmutation can never result in a "pure" descendant, and thus disproves that belief. Without rigorous selection by breeders of a "show mentality", even these "pure" birds will continue to throw offspring betraying their hybrid ancestry.

So, sure, if your idea is breeding birds that match the "type" or "standard" for Green peafowl means the bird is actually pure, then that mentality would make sense to you. But the Greens are in trouble in the wild, and such a mentality would render the captive population virtually "worthless" to any captive-bred reintroduction program. So it all depends on your perspective. But the problem is that these two perspectives both use the word "pure", and yet their definitions differ.