Trials And Tribulations Of Suburban Meat Bird Production

[aart]

why not use the HN for VN so that they have the better seal and don't leak??

Exactly why I use HN's.
Plus they are way better for heating in winter as the seal is inside the bucket/bottle,
plus plus you can set the bucket/bottle down as they are on sides instead of bottom.

VN's are more available in stores and are easier for very young birds to use.
With the HN's I've had trouble getting any age bird to 'learn' how to use them after using an open waterer. Some pick it up quick, some take days or weeks to 'get it'.

There are pros and cons to both, but the HN's won out here.

 

[Kusanar]

Exactly why I use HN's.
Plus they are way better for heating in winter as the seal is inside the bucket/bottle,
plus plus you can set the bucket/bottle down as they are on sides instead of bottom.

VN's are more available in stores and are easier for very young birds to use.
With the HN's I've had trouble getting any age bird to 'learn' how to use them after using an open waterer. Some pick it up quick, some take days or weeks to 'get it'.

There are pros and cons to both, but the HN's won out here.

So use the VN for the very young chicks to get them used to using them, then switch to the HN for the rest of their life once they get the swing of things? That wouldn't be too bad to deal with leaking for a few weeks in the brooder.

 

[Redhead Rae]

So use the VN for the very young chicks to get them used to using them, then switch to the HN for the rest of their life once they get the swing of things? That wouldn't be too bad to deal with leaking for a few weeks in the brooder.

To manage the leaking in the brooder, do you think you could put a pan with stones or a raised grid underneath so the water is caught and doesn't get in the bedding?

 

[aart]

So use the VN for the very young chicks to get them used to using them, then switch to the HN for the rest of their life once they get the swing of things?

Maybe.

To manage the leaking in the brooder, do you think you could put a pan with stones or a raised grid underneath so the water is caught and doesn't get in the bedding?

Yep, a dish filled with glass stones(easier to clean) for stability and 'drier' footing would work well I think....grid covered pan would work too.

 

[Lookin4GoodLife]

Hey Bird, if I remember correctly, you made your MHP out of 1/2" x 1" mesh? I'll be ordering some for rabbit cages, but haven't decided yet and I'm about ready to buy my new chicks..... I'll only have 10-12 RIR or Black Australorps and I have some 1/2" regular old hardware cloth on hand. You think that would do for a MHP? I realize it won't hold up long term, but how about for a one time use? My heating pad I ordered is 10 x 20.75, so I thought a MHP 12 x 24..... I've got plenty of threaded rod I pulled out of a dumpster when some guys were building a Dollar Tree. Amazing what folks throw away when it's already built into the project and paid for! If I put a single layer or even double it up on the bottom, a layer below the pad and a layer above the pad like you've done, you think the 1/2" cloth will hold up for a single use? Then after I buy my rabbit wire, but before I get my first batch of meat birds, I'll rebuild it with the 14 gauge rabbit wire.

 

[aart]

If I put a single layer or even double it up on the bottom, a layer below the pad and a layer above the pad like you've done, you think the 1/2" cloth will hold up for a single use?

Use a couple of lengths of that threaded rod across the edges the 24" span to stiffen it.

 

[Birdinhand]

The tiniest piece of grit can hold them open...or if they're not perfectly level...or....

well, I swapped out the waterer with one of the others and finally got around to dealing with it this morning. turns out that while it's a blue translucent plastic bucket with red nipples that looks exactly the same as the "Chicken Kooler" brand, it is not, it's a "Hen Hydrator" by Little Giant and the nipples, while they are almost imperceptibly different, are in fact different brands. just to show how subtle the difference is, I took a photo below. last year, when I got the maker of the chicken kooler on the phone I ordered a bunch of extra nipples from him, because he gave me a deal and was so nice to give me a his brain dump on waterers for like an hour on the phone. so, I swapped out all the nipples, fortunately they had the same threading, unlike another brand I got last year and now there is no leaking. I do find it mind boggling that the chicken kooler was one of the original nipple waters, doesn't leak, lead to a whole bunch of knock offs that all seem to leak which then apparently caused the industry to change directions from vertical nipples to horizontal one's, which some say freeze more easily. for now i'm sticking with my hard won vertical system that works really well with my de-icer, well into the teens.

the one on the left is a slightly different color red and if you look closely, the grips on the lower part that twists are a longer molding. the one on the right is one of several common variants that leak. the leaking is subtle and hard to distinguish from the typical flicking of water all over the place that happens as the chicks drink, but adds up to a lot of water over time and since keeping birds dry is paramount, it makes a difference, particularly when trying to provide water for 40 meat birds.

 

[Birdinhand]

Hey Bird, if I remember correctly, you made your MHP out of 1/2" x 1" mesh? I'll be ordering some for rabbit cages, but haven't decided yet and I'm about ready to buy my new chicks..... I'll only have 10-12 RIR or Black Australorps and I have some 1/2" regular old hardware cloth on hand. You think that would do for a MHP? I realize it won't hold up long term, but how about for a one time use? My heating pad I ordered is 10 x 20.75, so I thought a MHP 12 x 24..... I've got plenty of threaded rod I pulled out of a dumpster when some guys were building a Dollar Tree. Amazing what folks throw away when it's already built into the project and paid for! If I put a single layer or even double it up on the bottom, a layer below the pad and a layer above the pad like you've done, you think the 1/2" cloth will hold up for a single use? Then after I buy my rabbit wire, but before I get my first batch of meat birds, I'll rebuild it with the 14 gauge rabbit wire.

you'll have to give it a try. there are lots of variations and sometimes the KISS (keep is super simple) approach turns out to be the best, particularly for layer chicks. Blooie, the "mama hen" to the MHP thread has great luck kind of winging it with just hardware cloth or mesh, and molding it to whatever height they need as they grow. the threaded nut/bolt/washer approach is nice for the long run with re-use and lends itself well to having large numbers. I would say if you are going with mesh that is not as thick as the typical hardware cloth or for whatever reason doesn't seem to be holding up under the weight of the birds (remember, they start roosting on top at night within just a few weeks), you can add additional bolts. with meat birds I would suggest making the MHP much more robust than is typical for layer chicks. meat birds grow fast, get heavy and need a more structurally stable MHP. this is why I use a floor layer of hardware cloth that gives you something to attach the nuts/bolts/washers to, making it rigid. the washer essentially clamp on to a large enough surface area of the hardware cloth to keep it at a right angle/perpendicular. I use the sandwich of nuts/bolts/washers on the top part too. it can feel like quite a bit of hardware when you are putting it together but has stood the test of time so far and when compared to two, 250W bulbs going 24/7, you quickly make back your investment in energy savings, plus all the other benefits.

 

[aart]

the nipples, while they are almost imperceptibly different, are in fact different brands.

There are more than several models/manufacturers of the the VN's.
I'd also guess that the several different assembled waterers available change nipple suppliers too.

 

[Birdinhand]

There are more than several models/manufacturers of the the VN's.
I'd also guess that the several different assembled waterers available change nipple suppliers too.

the guy who makes the chicken Kooler, claims to have gone to great lengths to find one that doesn't leak, and so far it seems that he has managed to find a superior version. the way I found out about it was through an employee at a very interesting operation called keep it simple farm https://www.kisfarm.com/, near Redmond WA, not far from me. the employee made a claim about the waterer being amazing, so I gave it a try and was very impressed and kind of dumbfounded that there are so many different nipples out there, many of which don't perform well long term. two of this style waterer have made it through a winter now and still do not leak. Now that I have a third, it will be interesting to see how they all do over time. even if I have to replace the nipples every year or so, or simply service them, it will be worth it to not have the mess under the waterer and still have all the benefits of nipple waterers (cleaner, healthier, less cleaning required, less filling because of more efficient supply).