Trick Training

[accio! chickens]

I never meant for this to get into a critique of how I'm working with my horse. This was purely and simply about trick training and now we're off topic. I am no longer seeking advice regarding any of these issues.

 

[greathorse]

OK you have this mare under control, google horse tricks to your hearts content, go to the library check out Amazon.com. About 15 minutes of research and and you can have all the trick information you can read for about six months. In the mean time work with your horse and stay safe.

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

If you can get a roundpen, I think this will help your issue alot. I've really, really grown on round pen use during the past year. In one week, you could have the horse respecting you more than you ever imagined. Lately, we've been using a round pen for everything from building respect to picking up the rear legs. Its also just a great time to get to know your horse. Sometimes I just bring my mare up the and hang out with her. As I get to know her more and more, she stays closer and closer to me. I feel good knowing that she doesn't just do that because I make her, but because she respects me as her "leader".

Anyways, I'm sort of going off topic, but it relates too. A round pen is easier to train in because there are no corners for your horse to get stuck in. I would say hold off on teaching any tricks until you can touch just about every part of her body. The main reason I say this is because with a lot of tricks you have to get closer to the horse, and if she's jumpy, she could injure you. I would also stay away from any tricks that ask a horse to lift its legs in any way. However, when you are teaching her to pick up her feet for you to clean, it would not be a bad idea to teach her the command "up". Our horses know that "up" means we want them to lift for the farrier or hoof cleaning.

Also, as pat mentioned, relaxation exercises like head lowering and bending are great. Head lowering is pretty easy to teach. What I've done in the past is put pressure downwards on the head with the halter and a lead. As soon as she gives in, release the pressure. That is her reward. She should pick it up fairly quick, but it may take a bit to get her to understand. As for the bending of the neck, we teach our horses to do this because it is very relaxing for them, and helps to build up neck muscles. We bend for a few seconds on each side fo the neck after mounting. It just sort of sets the mood.

Other things you can work on right now is backing up and walking nicely on a lead. Get her to walk with you and not in front of you. Also, desensitizing is great too. Just make sure big enough area (We use our roundpen) and that you have control of the stimulus. Plastic bags, tarps, big exercise balls (Not horse balls, those can be dangerous for the horse becuase they can actually get them stuck under their bellies), and anything else is great. Throws things at them, around them, make noises, whatever. If something spooks her, do it until she's relaxed and licking her lips. Our horse now love to play with the exercise balls and we can kick them at them and they will kick them back. Just another fun thing to build trust and to have fun!

I know its tough with a spooky horse like that, but you'll get there if you're patient. Sometimes you have to use food on a very spooky animal just to get them handable, but after that it should be more about respect. Seems like you are making progress though. Good luck!

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
I probably took this out of context, but when your horse is tall and is constantly lifting his head, it makes it MUCH more difficult to get that bridle on than if you could have the horse trained to drop his head to allow you to put the bridle/halter on.

Certainly. But that is a *fringe benefit*, not the BIG thing it does.

Pat

 

[accio! chickens]

Thank you Chickerdoodle, this is exactly what I have been trying to explain. I hadn't, to be honest, thought about neck bending and such. I strive to be able to touch her all over and I have taught many a horse to 'up' the feet when asked by the farrier or me. It's very helpful and makes trimming, which can be stressful and ouchy, more comfortable for the horse.

I agree completely on roundpen use. I am a huge fan of roundpens and their use as training aids. I am desperatly trying to get a roundpen, but the fact is I have a lot of snow clearing to do before one can be put down in the place I need it to be. I did say that trick training was for the future, I wanted to get my hands on some good trick training resources so I could really decide if this would be beneficial to her at all.

I agree with you, and this is how I am using food. I use the food to get the initial contact and eventually for that specific contact the food is phased out and is replaced with soothing words and good words. Food can be used very effectively as a positive reinforcement for good behaviours, but should never be used for too long unless you want a very spoiled horse. I take this really to heart as I have seen the result of a horse that has been allowed the treat the whole time. My pony mare was a prime example of a pony that was spoiled with food. I reinforce good behaviours with Mylie and correct bad behaviours like nibbling, and pushiness. I've been dumping pails, feed pans, scoops, buckets, whatever over the fence for weeks. Dumping them on the ground, everything. I've recently begun dumping my mittens on the ground, or my coat and she no longer spooks at these things hitting the ground.

Groundwork is everything, and since she's not being ridden (she has had 30 days of prof. training, with a trainer who has 40 years of experience and uses food as positive reinforcement. He's a big name out here in roping and reining, and a great farrier).

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

The horse that I currently work with was given to us free because she was apparently "aggressive" to the previous owners. I haven't seen this horse pin her ears once while she's been with me and I've fallen in love with her. However, I did notice that the previous owners fed her treats for EVERYTHING! No wonder she was nasty to them...she had no respect! We don't give her treats very often, but that doesn't mean we don't give them at all. Most of the time she does the things I ask because she respects me, but I do use treats every now and then for trailer training. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. The problem was in the way the previous owners did it...Sedona (the horse) did everything for treats, and saw her owners ONLY as a source of food! That's when things get dangerous.

I don't think you are doing this with your horse, and as long as you wean her off of treats and teach her that YOU are the lead horse, you should be fine. You just want to make sure she sees you as another horse, not as a source of food.

It took us awhile to get a round pen because they were so darn expensive! I just can't believe how much easier everything is with one.

I think once you get her to the point that she trusts you and you can trust her a fairly decent amount, you can teach her simple things like bowing, possibly holding something in her mouth, or kicking around an exercise ball. The few tricks i would stay away from are (like I mentioned before) anything involving the waving of legs, rearing, or anything that she can do that can seriously injure you when you don't expect it. Of course you can always be injured by a horse, but avoiding tricks like those will help reduce the risk just a bit. One fairly advanced trick I'd love to teach my horse is to lay down, but I am nowhere near advanced enough as a trainer to teach that.

Good luck! Once she becomes more trustful of you, you'll find it much more enjoyable to work with, and you'll probably develop little things on your own to work on.

 

[greathorse]

My ex thought I was a thoughtless so and so for not feeding my horses treats she began doing it a lot and was bitten hard by a horse that expected them one day when she didnt have any. My fault of course.

I went to visit an acquaintance that wanted to show me his team of belgin horses. We didn't have treats and the horse pinned it's ears and rushed me. I have enough experience to see it coming and thwarted the thing but that horse was going to hurt me. The owner's response Aww he just wanted a treat.

I understand that grain if carefully used can be OK, but takes a lot more sensitivity and reading of a horse than to teach without it. If you are only the provider of food you are in trouble. OP called the horse very food motivated cant tell you how big of a red flag that is. DANGER DANGER DANGER

 

[accio! chickens]

Ugh, I know, don't they cost an absolute fortune? The one I've found is from a local tack shop, it's a 'hobby' round pen and costs about $1800 for a 50ft. I'm starting with a 50ft and then buying some extra panels to get a 60ft.

I read your post on Sedona on BYH! I'm glad to hear you like her. I agree totally, you can feed treats every now and then, but all the time and for everything is not good. My pony was a spoiled brat, she still has problems with the farrier but I pick up her feet when I'm down there and she's getting better. I was thinking if I found trick training to be beneficial, training her to bow, which is a fairly simple trick. My gelding bowed.

I think honestly it's comfort and relaxtion with me rather than trust, I really should have been clearer about this. She was very tense and spooky when we got her and she hardly spooks now. I realize her training will never be over, it's a constant learning process, but she's a willing and quick learner and I enjoy working with her. But you know, I've seen the otherside of her. She has a great bond with her farrier and she is the kind of horse that, when relaxed, will rest her head on your shoulder and just chill.

Thanks again Chickerdoodle! Now I am off to do night check on the ponies and make sure everyones water is filled and hay is stocked in the goat house

 

[accio! chickens]

Quote:
You don't know me or my horse. I asked for suggestions on reading material and not input on my training techniques. Given that you can't be here in person and see how I work with her, you can't really offer input based on what I've written on a post. I called her food motivated but all horses naturally are food motivated. It's whether or not you choose to overuse that natural motivation that can get you into trouble. I have stated many times that food is only used for initial contact and the horse is weaned off and no longer offer food. Neither of my mares get treats on a regular basis because it isn't an effective solution to anything. As Chickerdoodle stated, sometimes using that food motivation to get initial contact with a very spooky horse is needed, but overusing is where you get into trouble.

 

[greathorse]

Nope my horses have no idea what food is when it is in my hand or not in their feed bunk and that is just the way I will keep it. Yes you can use it any way you like. Just hoping you understand regarding the risk, and if you read your first post you will quickly see that you indicated that you used it to be able to touch your horse. You also indicated the horse runs when you touch the rear. If you wanted no input on the risk of handliing a horse in this manner I would not have posted it.