TSC coop and a couple of questions

[U_Stormcrow]

It probably depends on the kind of soil, and how wet it usually is.
The fence company might be showing what works for the most difficult situations.

It ABSOLUTELY depends on what type of soil, and the size of the electric fence run. Around a tiny little coop in a backyard, anything will be overkill. Even in poor soil.

Using my 30 mi charger (2.x joules) and 3 hot wires around less than a half mile of fencing (each of three legs) on my dry sandy clay soils, even three 8' deep ground rods wasn't sufficient. I had to drive another ground (albeit shorter) at each corner, and in the middle of the long sides, all connected back to the charger's ground system. When we go three weeks w/o rain, the soil is such a poor conductor you can tap the wire with the back of your thumbnail and get an annoying jolt. OTOH, when it rains as it did last night, and the soil is conducting well??? I can hear the discharges off the fence from 30 feet away, further in places.

The fence company made some "assumptions" for that diagram. As usual, its the minimum for the typical on good soil. The OP, however, benefits in that the area they are enclosing is (relatively speaking) miniscule compared to the typical electric fence system - whose lowest point of effectiveness is determined by the distance and soil conditions between the furthest fence location and the ground rod(s). Here, instead of being measured in 100s of feet, or thousands, its likely less than 20 feet.

OP is actually building a lightning rod, effectively, by creating a concentrated area of negatively charged ground. Not as bad as it sounds though, because *most* lightning is negative charges in the clouds to positive charge on the ground - the e-fence creates the reverse of that condition. That's why the negative goes to ground.

 

[humblehillsfarm]

It ABSOLUTELY depends on what type of soil, and the size of the electric fence run. Around a tiny little coup in a backyard, anything will be overkill. Even in poor soil.

Using my 30 mi charger (2.x joules) and 3 hot wires around less than a half mile of fencing (each of three legs) on my dry sandy clay soils, even three 8' deep ground rods wasn't sufficient. I had to drive another ground (albeit shorter) at each corner, and in the middle of the long sides, all connected back to the charger's ground system. When we go three weeks w/o rain, the soil is such a poor conductor you can tap the wire with the back of your thumbnail and get an annoying jolt. OTOH, when it rains as it did last night, and the soil is conducting well??? I can hear the discharges off the fence from 30 feet away, further in places.

The fence company made some "assumptions" for that diagram. As usual, its the minimum for the typical on good soil. The OP, however, benefits in that the area they are enclosing is (relatively speaking) miniscule compared to the typical electric fence system - whose lowest point of effectiveness is determined by the distance and soil conditions between the furthest fence location and the ground rod(s). Here, instead of being measured in 100s of feet, or thousands, its likely less than 20 feet.

OP is actually building a lightning rod, effectively, by creating a concentrated area of negatively charged ground. Not as bad as it sounds though, because *most* lightning is negative charges in the clouds to positive charge on the ground - the e-fence creates the reverse of that condition. That's why the negative goes to ground.

I had the same experience as you. I put up a powerful fence system to ward off bears, but then a month later the bear got into our coop and killed several birds. I checked the voltage, almost nothing. We hadn't had rain in weeks. I drove the ground rod in another 2-3' and watered the ground around the fence as best as I could, and improved the voltage substantially. Sadly I had to learn the hard way to regularly check the voltage of your fence.

Wow, that diagram looks so much like you attach the fence to the charger twice. I just spent a little too much time double checking whether there are two kinds of fence chargers. Then looked more closely... nope, this one has the same connections I am familiar with... make your fencing a loop then attach one lead wire from the charger to the fence loop.... just isn't as clear as it could be. Or I just think backwards, sometimes, lol the right way to do this always seems wrong to me, lol.

If I am understanding your observation correctly, what you are seeing is the ground wire connected to the charger and then the fence wire (or lead wire as you said) is connected to the charger. There are supposed to be two connections. Or is that what you were trying to say?

 

[Ricefarm224]

I talked to a buddy of mine last night who has extensive experience with this fencing for livestock containment. His thoughts are one ground rod for a planned 30x30 fenced in run, possibly a little larger.

Our home sits smack dab in the middle of a 2000 acre rice farm. Rice is grown in flooded fields and we typically, after harvest, keep some of these fields flooded over winter for duck hunting season. As a side benefit to this, all of the soil maintains a good moisture level here at the house. The yard has never been bone dry and even in mid summer, one can dig down quite easily, for example when sitting a 4x4 fence post a post hole digger cuts through it like butter.

The down side to this is that I'm always mowing and weed control is a full time time job.

Given my circumstances we are going with one grounding rod and see how the fence performs.

 

[cmobley]

I talked to a buddy of mine last night who has extensive experience with this fencing for livestock containment. His thoughts are one ground rod for a planned 30x30 fenced in run, possibly a little larger.

Our home sits smack dab in the middle of a 2000 acre rice farm. Rice is grown in flooded fields and we typically, after harvest, keep some of these fields flooded over winter for duck hunting season. As a side benefit to this, all of the soil maintains a good moisture level here at the house. The yard has never been bone dry and even in mid summer, one can dig down quite easily, for example when sitting a 4x4 fence post a post hole digger cuts through it like butter.

The down side to this is that I'm always mowing and weed control is a full time time job.

Given my circumstances we are going with one grounding rod and see how the fence performs.

We always used one on our 120 mile cattle chargers and i use one on my 50 mile 10x10 pen charger. But I live in Alabama to. Dirts usually pretty moist here.

 

[cmobley]

Also just for some extra info if your not getting a good ground poor salt down the hole before you set the rod or dump some on the ground around the rod if you don't mind dead grass for a little while.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I talked to a buddy of mine last night who has extensive experience with this fencing for livestock containment. His thoughts are one ground rod for a planned 30x30 fenced in run, possibly a little larger.

Our home sits smack dab in the middle of a 2000 acre rice farm. Rice is grown in flooded fields and we typically, after harvest, keep some of these fields flooded over winter for duck hunting season. As a side benefit to this, all of the soil maintains a good moisture level here at the house. The yard has never been bone dry and even in mid summer, one can dig down quite easily, for example when sitting a 4x4 fence post a post hole digger cuts through it like butter.

The down side to this is that I'm always mowing and weed control is a full time time job.

Given my circumstances we are going with one grounding rod and see how the fence performs.

Given the area i imagine you are protecting, with a corner likely not more than 30 or 40 foot from the charger, one ground should be adequate especially as you have good soil conditions. Do remember not to use copper grounding rods (as you would for a house), so as to avoid creating a galvanic reaction that speeds corrosion of the fence.

Copper wires (house), copper rods.

Galvanized (steel) wires (e-fence), steel ground rods.

If you are using that ribbon stuff (polytape/polywire), follow MFG direction on grounding material, and make sure your hookups from charger to rod and charger to fence match.

 

[saysfaa]

...If I am understanding your observation correctly, what you are seeing is the ground wire connected to the charger and then the fence wire (or lead wire as you said) is connected to the charger. There are supposed to be two connections. Or is that what you were trying to say?

The first sentence, yes. The second sentence, maybe. When I see "two connections", I think of one thing connected in two places: it isn't that. But it could also mean two different things each connected once: it is that. I'll try to say what I mean in a different way. There are two completely separate wires connecting to the charger. One goes to the ground rods. The other goes to the wire making up the fence. The current between the ground rods and the wire making up the fence is only through through the dirt and inside the charger and only happens when something (like a predator or person) touches both the wire in the fence and the earth.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I had the same experience as you. I put up a powerful fence system to ward off bears, but then a month later the bear got into our coop and killed several birds. I checked the voltage, almost nothing. We hadn't had rain in weeks. I drove the ground rod in another 2-3' and watered the ground around the fence as best as I could, and improved the voltage substantially. Sadly I had to learn the hard way to regularly check the voltage of your fence.

Yes, I walk it twice weekly, more if we've had strong winds (as last night and this AM - that's what I'm doing next), and touch it with my thumbnail in the middle spots between rods, where the conductivity is least. After last night's rains, I think I'll skip that and trust to my ears, once any shorts from downed branches, etc have been removed. When my ground is wet, it causes my arm to twitch like the last time I bumped 220v when a pool motor shorted to the case. Its not something I'll willingly repeat.

 

[Folly's place]

Get a fence tester! You want to know how your fence is doing, and touching a really hot fence isn't the way to do it, at least not more than once.
And hotter is better than weaker, so plan for your worst predator and go from there.
Our livestock fencing runs from 7v to 9.9v. It's hot!
@Howard E and @cmom are very helpful on this site, and Premier1supplies.com has products and good acvice on their site, and on the phone.
Mary

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Freely acknowledge my way is not "best way". Most of four decades ago, a philosophy teacher introduced me to the concept that "man was the measure of all things", and I still use that method. With calibration, its reasonably reliable, just as you can gauge the temperature of a fire by how long you can hold your hand over it. To say that humanity, in both philosophy and science, has come a long ways in the 4,000 years +/- since is to belabor the obvious.

I also recommend a fence tester (not yourself).