Tube feeding mishap

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by K R 2709, Aug 25, 2014.

  1. K R 2709

    K R 2709 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Recently I tried to tube feed a sick bird. Something went wrong and the bird coughed up some liquid. I stopped immediately. What did I do wrong? Any thoughts?
     
  2. Sarevan

    Sarevan Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Sometimes too much food is given at once. I did that to a hen and it came back up from crop. Pressing on the outside of the crop that is very full can make it come back up too.

    When they drink a bunch of water on their own put head down to peck ground some will drain out. They then shake their heads and cough to clear throat to breathe.
     
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  3. mightymax

    mightymax Chillin' With My Peeps

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    !
    It could be that you made the bird too full, too fast. Or, your tube may have gone down the wrong pipe, so to speak. Instead of going half way down into the crop, sometimes we can overshoot and end up either in, or too near, the lungs. When this happens, you WANT the bird to cough otherwise it's called aspiration and the bird would likely die from it. The good thing is that you stopped immediately, the best thing is that the bird's still alive and the most wonderful thing of all is that the poor little sick bird has you to care for it !!! [​IMG]Good Job!
     
  4. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member Project Manager

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    As you insert the tub you should be able to feel it going down on the right side of the birds neck into the crop. Once the tube is inserted you should also be able to feel it in the crop. The tube is correctly placed if you can feel the end of the tube in the crop.

    A few things can cause the bird to vomit food.
    1. Overfilling
    2. Filling too fast
    3. Tube not down far enough
    4. Some sick birds can't hold very much
    5. Pressure on crop from towel wrap or handling

    If a large enough tube is used it's almost impossible to place it in the wrong hole (trachea). What type of chicken is it and how much does it weigh?

    -Kathy
     
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  5. kittydoc

    kittydoc Chillin' With My Peeps

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    As a veterinarian, the most important single thing is to know you have the crop tube in the crop before you start. This means that most crop tubing should be a two-person operation. (I have done it by myself with the bird and I both backed into a corner, but neither of us found it much fun).

    One person holds the bird firmly by the feet and makes sure the wings cannot get free. The "tuber" should have everything ready to go. Ideally, you should take a length of tube (it can be as small as IV tubing or aquarium air tubing), and in advance, run it alongside the bird from about mid-crop up the neck and give it 2-3" more after it would exit the bird's mouth. Mark that with a black marker so you know that's right about where you want to be when you start adding liquid--not lower, not higher. Attach a feeding or large volume syringe (I use a 30 cc, because for impactions, you don't want to go nuts on volume anyway).

    Once the holder is set, pretend you have three or four hands, and hold the bird's wattle and the tubing/syringe in your right hand. I use my left hand (am right handed) to open up the top beak. You want excellent lighting so you can SEE the trachea, which will be at the base of the tongue, and the trachea will open and close as the bird breaths. You want to go to the right of the trachea with the tubing as far as practical until you see your black mark about 2-3" from the bird's beak. Your holder continues to hold, and now you try to hold the tubing in the right position then start to slowly add material from the syringe. Wait to hear a cough after the first little bit. If no cough, proceed slowly. Don't rush.

    When finished, pinch the tubing in half and remove it quickly so as little as possible is left in the bird's mouth, especially when it contains oil.

    A bird with a large, water balloon crop may need SUCTION first before attempting anything else if you suspect sour crop or impaction. DO NOT turn the bird upside down. You can try to drain some material by holding the bird's chest on your knee, and pointing it downward toward a container. You may or may not get any material. Stop every several seconds to let the bird catch a breath so it does not aspirate (breath in the bad stuff). My last impacted hen's stuff was too dry, so I got nothing out.

    Some people suggest coconut oil to lubricate an impaction. I can't speak to this personally. I used half/half olive oil and water, first 20-30 cc on Day 1, and only 10 cc total on Day 2. 30 cc is about an ounce.

    The warnings above are good ones. Massage (for impaction) is important, but if the crop is watery, be very gentle and only massage the bottom near the gizzard. You can accidentally squeeze enough liquid up the esophagus to cause the bird to aspirate if there is too much liquid in there. An aspirated bird can easily become a dead bird, especially if they are already stressed.

    Hope this helps!
     
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  6. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member Project Manager

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    Oh how I wish I had an extra set of hands, especially when I have to tube a 30 pound turkey or a mean peacock! Two people is definetly the way to do it. :D

    -Kathy
     
  7. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member Project Manager

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    Maybe these pictures will help someone:

    From:http://www.hopkinslivestock.com/oral_dosing_article.htm
    The hole at the back of the tongue is the entrance to the trachea - Nothing should ever go in there!
    [​IMG]

    The tube being used here is a size 18 french
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    How To Crop Feed Your Bird Diagram
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    From:http://www.hopkinslivestock.com/oral_dosing_article.htm
    This is how one could syringe medication to a bird
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    French
    Gauge Diameter
    (mm) Diameter
    (inches)
    3 1 0.039
    4 1.33 0.053
    5 1.67 0.066
    6 2 0.079
    7 2.3 0.092
    8 2.7 0.105
    9 3 0.118
    10 3.3 0.131
    11 3.7 0.144
    12 4 0.158
    13 4.3 0.170
    14 4.7 0.184
    15 5 0.197
    16 5.3 0.210
    17 5.7 0.223
    18 6 0.236
    19 6.3 0.249
    20 6.7 0.263
    22 7.3 0.288
    24 8 0.315
    26 8.7 0.341
    28 9.3 0.367
    30 10 0.393
    32 10.7 0.419
    34 11.3 0.445​

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    -Kathy
     
  8. K R 2709

    K R 2709 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Wow! Thanks for all of the awesome info :) I think that I didn't pit the tube down far enough.
     
  9. mightymax

    mightymax Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Central Coast, CA
    It could be that you made the bird too full, too fast. Or, your tube may have gone down the wrong pipe, so to speak. Instead of going half way down into the crop, sometimes we can overshoot and end up either in, or too near, the lungs. When this happens, you WANT the bird to cough otherwise it's called aspiration and the bird would likely die from it. The good thing is that you stopped immediately, the best thing is that the bird's still alive and the most wonderful thing of all is that the poor little sick bird has you to care for it !!! [​IMG]Good Job!

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Does the above post look familiar to anyone? It should. It was the second post on this thread after the OP's. Now I don't mind when others add additional and insightful information along with repeating the very same (or very close to) information that I wrote about just the post above them. What I do take issue with is when they basically just regurgitate what I said, put it out there like it was their own idea to begin with and then sit back and take all the glory for 'coming up with a solution that nobody else had thought of,
    Well, in this particular instance, that 'nobody' was me and I gave what I believe to be a good answer to the question. I'll admit that I didn't go into as much detail as others did, but it was only the second response, people!!! I like to do more answering to those questions that they actually ask, rather than just telling them what they have to do. But that's just probably me, IDK.

    As you insert the tub you should be able to feel it going down on the right side of the birds neck into the crop. Once the tube is inserted you should also be able to feel it in the crop. The tube is correctly placed if you can feel the end of the tube in the crop.

    A few things can cause the bird to vomit food.
    1. Overfilling
    2. Filling too fast
    3. Tube not down far enough
    4. Some sick birds can't hold very much
    5. Pressure on crop from towel wrap or handling

    If a large enough tube is used it's almost impossible to place it in the wrong hole (trachea). What type of chicken is it and how much does it weigh?

    And not only is it possible to accidentally put it down the 'wrong pipe' (only people in the business call it a trachea) , but for a first-timer (who may not know a crop from a crap) it's actually quite plausible . I have witnessed it numerous times at my old veterinary clinic where I used to work. We'd be trying to teach somebody how to do it and then...oops,,,up would usually come some sort of foul smelling phlegm.

    What's actually more important than the correct placement of the feeding tube in the crop, is not to put it all the way down until it reaches the very bottom of the crop. You do that, and you're just a few feedings away from a perforated/ruptured crop. And THAT'S a surgical procedure that'll run you up some pretty hefty charges !!!

    But I guess if charts and graphs and diagrams and links are what the people on this site want, then I guess I'd better go back through my power points and dust off my old overhead transparencies so I'll know where to find them should I ever happen to need them.

    Thanks for reading. And I didn't mean to break anyone's toes...(I would have said stepped on, but somebody on BYC told me not to worry about that...lol !!!
     
  10. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member Project Manager

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