Turkeys For 2013

[yinepu]

There seems to be such a huff about pure breeding and Sop standards. Poultry is not like horses. Horses requires pedigrees to get into their prospective registries. Perhaps if they had chicken and turkey registries, lineage would matter. If you are a breeder to keep the breed pure, then lineage matters. However, if any bird from any "mutt" parents look like the breed the owner wants to show it under, the judges don't care who the parents are. If the bird meets the "looks" of the particular breed, it can win in ANY show, given how close it matches the standards of that breed. NOWHERE, is it required to show parentage for birds. Now, if there were a registry...that would be different. But since there isn't, and the shows and judges can only go by the looks of a particular bird, SOP isn't really worth the breath it takes to utter the word.

The reason breeds were created was to fulfill the wishes of breeders. More breast meat, brighter colors, smaller dogs, natural "watchdogs". These are all important things to consider when creating a new "breed". What do you want to accomplish? To me, a breed should breed true. There are several breeds of chicken that can be shown, but they don't breed true. Why is that? Because the powers that be decided they needed a way to be able to determine male from female at day one. Or the gene of a certain bird takes one or two genes to create the look, so you could end up with a black or blue or white bird, or a red, yellow or white bird.

There is a use for all animals. We all have our individual uses for our animals. A "breeder" should breed to better his/her breed. Me, I'm breeding brighter birds so I don't get them mixed up with the bronzed turkeys that are wild here. I don't plan on selling for breeding purposes, I plan on selling for meat (if i can part with them...)

Others should not be castigated for breeding for their own purposes. I like Porter's bird, especially the brighter, "new' breeds he is creating, because they breed true, whereas some of the "official' type birds don't breed true.

Not all breeds breed true. A pure blooded Appaloosa breed to another pureblooded Appy will not always throw a spotted foal. The smallest chihuahuas in the world will have some larger babies when bred to another tiny chi.

To say that we've have reached our limits for new breeds is kind of short-sighted. There will come a day when we need our animals to reach further, go faster, breed truer, swim underwater, find cancer in our owners, ...

Only time will tell where the new breeds take us, or where we will take the breeds we have...

 

[LBejaran]

There seems to be such a huff about pure breeding and Sop standards. Poultry is not like horses. Horses requires pedigrees to get into their prospective registries. Perhaps if they had chicken and turkey registries, lineage would matter. If you are a breeder to keep the breed pure, then lineage matters. However, if any bird from any "mutt" parents look like the breed the owner wants to show it under, the judges don't care who the parents are.  If the bird meets the "looks" of the particular breed, it can win in ANY show, given how close it matches the standards of that breed. NOWHERE, is it required to show parentage for birds. Now, if there were a registry...that would be different. But since there isn't, and the shows and judges can only go by the looks of a particular bird, SOP isn't really worth the breath it takes to utter the word.

The reason breeds were created was to fulfill the wishes of breeders. More breast meat, brighter colors, smaller dogs, natural "watchdogs". These are all important things to consider when creating a new "breed". What do you want to accomplish? To me, a breed should breed true. There are several breeds of chicken that can be shown, but they don't breed true. Why is that? Because the powers that be decided they needed a way to be able to determine male from female at day one. Or the gene of a certain bird takes one or two genes to create the look, so you could end up with a black or blue or white bird, or a red, yellow or white bird.

There is a use for all animals. We all have our individual uses for our animals. A "breeder" should breed to better his/her breed. Me, I'm breeding brighter birds so I don't get them mixed up with the bronzed turkeys that are wild here. I don't plan on selling for breeding purposes, I plan on selling for meat (if i can part with them...)

Others should not be castigated for breeding for their own purposes. I like Porter's bird, especially the brighter, "new' breeds he is creating, because they breed true, whereas some of the "official' type birds don't breed true.

Not all breeds breed true. A pure blooded Appaloosa breed to another pureblooded Appy will not always throw a spotted foal. The smallest chihuahuas in the world will have some larger babies when bred to another tiny chi.

To say that we've have reached our limits for new breeds is kind of short-sighted. There will come a day when we need our animals to reach further, go faster, breed truer, swim underwater, find cancer in our owners, ...

Only time will tell where the new breeds take us, or where we will take the breeds we have... 

I'm giving you a mental hug because all the heritage bird talk is kind of terrifying. Some guy got mad at me once for saying I had a barnyard mix of birds. I was basically told that I was destroying heritage breeds because of my "Devil May Care" attitude about the breeds I have. Is it my fault I like different breeds and don't want to settle for one? Forgive me if I can't afford to pay $200 for expensive, "pure" chicken's. Variety is the spice of life and I love my mutt birds. The ones I've sold have always been sold as a barnyard mutt and people appreciate it no matter what. My flock-protecting roosters are mutts and have the best of RIRs and Games. They don't fight each other but are super protective of the flock with the added size of the RIR.

...sorry. Went on a tangent there because it's incredibly frustrating to be told by strangers that my happy chooks and turkeys are "wrong" or "killing heritage breeds". Stupid trolls bugging up my happiness. Hmph.

 

[yinepu]

Quote:
i usually tell people that when they start paying my feed bills.. THEN they can complain about my birds.. otherwise they are my birds and I will have what makes ME happy!
i wasn't put on this earth to make them happy... so they just have to learn to deal with it.. lol

 

[LBejaran]

i usually tell people that when they start paying my feed bills.. THEN they can complain about my birds.. otherwise they are my birds and I will have what makes ME happy!
i wasn't put on this earth to make them happy... so they just have to learn to deal with it.. lol

I don't like responding to the haters and naysayers. It just gives them the power of knowing that they've upset me. Besides, I'm creating a sustainable lifestyle that, while not uniform, is definitely colorful and surprising. When my "subpar" turkeys reproduce a few cute poults, I won't be seeing any flaws. I'll just see my turkeys cute babies that will keep the line going. There will be to much excitement to really fret about possible genetic flaws.

I love my menagerie of birds.

 

[yinepu]

Quote:
oh they don't upset me.. I just love seeing the look on their faces when I let them know that their opinion doesn't matter when it comes to things that they have no say in!

 

[LBejaran]

oh they don't upset me.. I just love seeing the look on their faces when I let them know that their opinion doesn't matter when it comes to things that they have no say in!

Hehehe! I'm a little too sensitive sometimes because of all the work I put into the flock. Having someone tell me otherwise does get me upset at first, then I get angry. Then I remember that my chooks don't know what they are. Do they really care all that much whether they are one breed or another? Nope, they are all crazy, breed doesn't matter. So long as they are healthy and happy, I'm happy. Haters be darned (censored, haha).

 

[Celie]

Originally Posted by desertmarcy

The definition of a heritage turkey has nothing to do with whether it is a cross breed and breeds true or not. The American Livestock Conservancy has the definition of a heritage turkey:
From their website:
Heritage turkeys are defined by the historic, range-based production system in which they are raised. Turkeys must meet all of the following criteria to qualify as a Heritage turkey:
1. Naturally mating: the Heritage Turkey must be reproduced and genetically maintained through natural mating, with expected fertility rates of 70-80%. This means that turkeys marketed as “heritage” must be the result of naturally mating pairs of both grandparent and parent stock.
2. Long productive outdoor lifespan: the Heritage Turkey must have a long productive lifespan. Breeding hens are commonly productive for 5-7 years and breeding toms for 3-5 years. The Heritage Turkey must also have a genetic ability to withstand the environmental rigors of outdoor production systems.
3. Slow growth rate: the Heritage Turkey must have a slow to moderate rate of growth. Today’s heritage turkeys reach a marketable weight in about 28 weeks, giving the birds time to develop a strong skeletal structure and healthy organs prior to building muscle mass. This growth rate is identical to that of the commercial varieties of the first half of the 20th century

All true, only the 4th requirement is they have to breed true.
Do you think BBB and BBW are the only turkeys that are Hybrids? If so, rethink, because they can breed naturally, if the tom's weight is maintained, but the large turkey industry find it more profitable to use AI. I have bred BBW naturally and true to their breed! But because they have a short lifespan, I don't consider them "Heritage" either. All 4 conditions have to be met.
Look folks, Every turkey is wonderful for what it is raised fpr, meat and beauty! I am just saying some breeders, small family businesses, are selling what they call HERITAGE turkeys to the unsuspecting public, and when the next generation are hatched, they look nothing like the parents and it makes all breeders look like USED CAR SALESMEN ! Then these people get on BYC and ask what breed do they have, when we all know they are crosses. I do not want to offend anyone. More people need to grow turkeys, but we have to get our terminology correct.

 

[desertmarcy]

Originally Posted by desertmarcy

The definition of a heritage turkey has nothing to do with whether it is a cross breed and breeds true or not. The American Livestock Conservancy has the definition of a heritage turkey:
From their website:
Heritage turkeys are defined by the historic, range-based production system in which they are raised. Turkeys must meet all of the following criteria to qualify as a Heritage turkey:
1. Naturally mating: the Heritage Turkey must be reproduced and genetically maintained through natural mating, with expected fertility rates of 70-80%. This means that turkeys marketed as “heritage” must be the result of naturally mating pairs of both grandparent and parent stock.
2. Long productive outdoor lifespan: the Heritage Turkey must have a long productive lifespan. Breeding hens are commonly productive for 5-7 years and breeding toms for 3-5 years. The Heritage Turkey must also have a genetic ability to withstand the environmental rigors of outdoor production systems.
3. Slow growth rate: the Heritage Turkey must have a slow to moderate rate of growth. Today’s heritage turkeys reach a marketable weight in about 28 weeks, giving the birds time to develop a strong skeletal structure and healthy organs prior to building muscle mass. This growth rate is identical to that of the commercial varieties of the first half of the 20th century

All true, only the 4th requirement is they have to breed true.
Do you think BBB and BBW are the only turkeys that are Hybrids? If so, rethink, because they can breed naturally, if the tom's weight is maintained, but the large turkey industry find it more profitable to use AI. I have bred BBW naturally and true to their breed! But because they have a short lifespan, I don't consider them "Heritage" either. All 4 conditions have to be met.
Look folks, Every turkey is wonderful for what it is raised fpr, meat and beauty! I am just saying some breeders, small family businesses, are selling what they call HERITAGE turkeys to the unsuspecting public, and when the next generation are hatched, they look nothing like the parents and it makes all breeders look like USED CAR SALESMEN ! Then these people get on BYC and ask what breed do they have, when we all know they are crosses. I do not want to offend anyone. More people need to grow turkeys, but we have to get our terminology correct.

Let's drop this please and just agree to disagree. I am just going by the ALBC's definition, which does not include true breeding.
If people are selling cross breeds and not telling the buyer what they are getting, that is a whole different problem and exists in chickens as well. I would also say the buyer should have some responsibility for knowing something about turkeys before they leap in and best to be familiar with the different varieties and what they should look like. It is human nature to name things so different color varieties get named even if they are not true breeding. There is plenty of information available about turkeys and the different varieties. Like someone else said on this thread, the reputable sellers will have repeat customers and the shady sales person will not. But like anything else in this world, especially if you are buying from an unknown source, BUYER BEWARE!

 

[B J Hopkins]

Well, we had our Turkey Supper. Cooked him for 6 hours at a low temp. I'm glad we went ahead and processed him the day before as it took my husband & I about 3 hours from start to finish to get the bird completly cleaned up. Getting all those feathers that were JUST beginning to come through the skin took a lot of time & was a real chore!! After processing, he weighed 20#.

I only ate one small slice off the thigh. It wasn't as tender as I'd have liked it to be. The next turkey we do won't be so big.

 

[Arielle]

Well, we had our Turkey Supper. Cooked him for 6 hours at a low temp. I'm glad we went ahead and processed him the day before as it took my husband & I about 3 hours from start to finish to get the bird completly cleaned up. Getting all those feathers that were JUST beginning to come through the skin took a lot of time & was a real chore!! After processing, he weighed 20#.

I only ate one small slice off the thigh. It wasn't as tender as I'd have liked it to be. The next turkey we do won't be so big.

Processing willl go faster the next time . . . at least it did for me as I developed a method.

20# was a good size-- enough for everyone??

HOw did you cook it?? YOu didn't mention that . . .

THe left overs will make a wonderful soup.