Turkeys For 2013

[Arielle]

Quote: Thank you, and as someone mentioned, the buff is actually more appropriately referred to as Jersey Buff, and are porters and patientwait backgrounds. The bronze and Auburn are totally Porters. I would not hesitate to order from porters again. We ordered only "true breeding" varieties. As far as Auburn, the only wey to get auburn toms is with a true auburn to auburn breeding. when we ordered we ended up with only one auburn and it was a tom. we loved the color, so we e-mailed kevin porter and he suggested the bronze hen to get auburn hens. worked great. we now have 2 beautiful auburn hens. and hope to have a small auburn flock this comming year.

We have concentrated on the Bronze, Jersey Buff, and Auburns. only Coral blue guinea fowl, and Partrige Wyandottes, and New Hampshire chickens.

Kris would like to get to one variety of turkey, but I love them all for different reasons.

RobertH
It's like being in a candy shop!! Can't have just one variety. lol

Thank you for the in depth explainationof the pairing to get the auburn hens. IUnfortuanately, no bronze here. Unless I'm not recognizing the color as a hen. I have a few cross bred narris that look bronze, so perhaps there are girls that I am not recognizing as bronze.

 

[Arielle]

For anyone that is interested Bob blosl died today. HE introduced me to the world of heritage breeds. ANd I just can't stop crying.

He always had time to answer questions. I have a great appreciation for the SOP and well bred heritage fowl.

 

[yinepu]

For anyone that is interested Bob blosl died today. HE introduced me to the world of heritage breeds. ANd I just can't stop crying.

He always had time to answer questions. I have a great appreciation for the SOP and well bred heritage fowl.

R.I.P. Bob....

 

[desertmarcy]

It fits the requirements that desertmarcy listed.. so it's considered a "heritage" breed
Naturally mating
Long productive outdoor lifespan
Slow growth rate

Yes I agree, especially those that you got from Porter since he bred them to be heritage.

 

[desertmarcy]

For anyone that is interested Bob blosl died today. HE introduced me to the world of heritage breeds. ANd I just can't stop crying.

He always had time to answer questions. I have a great appreciation for the SOP and well bred heritage fowl.

OMG, that is awful. Yes, his heritage large fowl thread changed my view of chickens entirely. I only talked with him once on the phone but so enjoyed all his posts and humor. That is so sad. I am behind on threads so didn't read about it, thank you for telling us here, Arielle.

 

[Arielle]

THere is a memorial thread in the random rambiing section-- somehow this is not the appropirate area, should be the breeds section. He was a special breed for sure.

 

[Celie]

In breeding anything looking at a long line of parents is important. IT tells about where the animal is genetically and where it is going and how we want to get there.

I think I can safely say that all domestic chickens and turkeys were developed by people breeding them purposely. Many of the breeds recognized today came from a mix of birds: RIR, and all the AMerican SOP chickens. They are no longer concidered a mutt. WHY?

WHen the Sussex became an organized group with a written SOP, they were lightyears behind other previously orgainized breeds and called mutts. Over the next 15 years, the breeders worked to improve the sussex and set the genes. TOday we do not call them mutts but are a recognized SOP breed.

Delawares-- Kathy IMO has built a new line and is only a few generations itno this project.She put together two breeds and get kudos from the likes of Robert BLosl and Walt Leonard. Are these mutts? OR purposely bred birds? Early on the term seems to be "project" birds but in howmany generations do they become a breed.

Cross breeding is a valid an duseful tool. Faster growth and increase healthy and a host of other positives.

THis method can also be used to re-invigorate a line. Either finding a related line many generations isolated, or adding in a parent breed from the beginning of the breed development; or adding an unrelated breed that has the gene characteristics tha could benefit a line and then select heavily for many generations.

POrters has a huge variety of birds that breed true. IMO most are a color that breeds true. THe SOP birds IMO must be from old stock. But given the propensity to develop all these gorgeous true breeding colors, without asking there is no way to know what breeds were used to make them-- probably a combination given the change in coloring. I'm not dissing Porters. He provides a great resource. I"m mearlu pointing out that I am no longer sure that the AUburns are pure given the situtaion.

Buff--- carefully read this. I read that this bird died out and was re-created. IT may be buff by color but it cannot be the original bird withit's own unique genetics and history of selection and exposure to climate and disease and selection by humans that made it unique from the others.

WHen is a bird just his colors? IMO a bird is how well it grows, what climate it is adapted to, the hardiness to with stand disease . . . . no one talkes about this.

As for selling /buying birds-- stick to your ethics of a moral seller , it will pay off. . If you treat a customer well, they will return. THose that feel dupped or cheated will not return. Buyers beware, get educated. ANd getting educated is a painful experience. Make use of what you learn. THis is part of life.

I hve lost sales in birds and horses because I was honest and up front. When I met a woman who told me not to do that, just tell enough to tease the buyier into wanting the animal-- she was in house sales.

That explained everything-- they are like car salesmen. NOT my cup of tea.

Well said! There are the SOP Heritage Breeds, that are APA recognized breeds in threat of going extinct, because too few keep the bloodlines pure bred and IMHO, should be procreated. Others that breed true need to be added to the recognized breeds, but unless they breed true, they should not be caller Heritage, IMO, but could be referred to as Heritage based crosses, or experimental breeds, so the public knows what they are buying. Yes, the weights were set, before we had better feed available and the small family farn had to feed whatever they could.
As far as chickens, there are SOP breeds as well as production breeds, depending on what you want, show or production, and it ic the same with turkeys. Breed to preserve the breed or breed for your own needs. Mixed breeds should be labeled just that "mixed" Until they breed true, they are not even a new Heritage breed, IMO, but every other day we are asked "What breed is this" after they mix 3 or 4 heritage mixes and people have to wake up! THEY ARE MUTTS! I have mutt doge that are great pets, mutt chickens who are great layers, but you can't mix a RIR and a Buff Orpington and call it a Red Orpington, because it will not breed true, so it is a MUTT. Crossbreeds are great for meat birds, but not a specific breed to be sold to the public with a made up name to make them think they are buying a rare Pure bred Heritage bird. It gives all turkey breeders a bad name! I am not trying to disrespect Porters or anyone else and The pictures I have seen on his site are beautiful. I hope he make the effort it takes to get them recognized as true Heritage.
I was a licensed Realtor in Louisiana for years and completely honest, a member of the MDC every year and had a great reputation. I was honest about everything! It is the only way I can be! I did not sell anyone a house to make a commission and would not offer negative type financing to anyone, because, a few years down the line, they would lose their homes. I also built single family homes, from a half million dollar range down to federally subsidized and treated everyone fair and honest, but I know the type you are talking about. I hate liars and they will be judged by Our Father for it. I am a Christian Woman and believe we should be MORRALLY Correct and Politically correct is what helped get this country where it is today, full of crooks, because it is man's teaching to get over on people, Gods way and words is what I deeply believe in and follow, as I know you do. If more people were honest, this country would be better off. I wish there was a lie detector attached to every politician giving a speech, too! LOL, like that's ever gonna happen!

 

[Celie]

QUOTE"
Thank you, and as someone mentioned, the buff is actually more appropriately referred to as Jersey Buff, and are porters and patientwait backgrounds. The bronze and Auburn are totally Porters. I would not hesitate to order from porters again. We ordered only "true breeding" varieties. As far as Auburn, the only wey to get auburn toms is with a true auburn to auburn breeding. when we ordered we ended up with only one auburn and it was a tom. we loved the color, so we e-mailed kevin porter and he suggested the bronze hen to get auburn hens. worked great. we now have 2 beautiful auburn hens. and hope to have a small auburn flock this comming year.

We have concentrated on the Bronze, Jersey Buff, and Auburns. only Coral blue guinea fowl, and Partrige Wyandottes, and New Hampshire chickens.

Kris would like to get to one variety of turkey, but I love them all for different reasons.

RobertH


Exactly, that is what is left out of the above list and other's list that say they only have to be able to breed Naturally! They also have to breed true to the same their parents were, or they are cross breeds! That part, the cross breeders don't want to admit. God calls them "Mamzers". look it up in the Strong's exhaustive concordance of the KING James Bible, page 79, in the Hebrew translations, under # 4464.

 

[chickadoodles]

For anyone that is interested Bob blosl died today. HE introduced me to the world of heritage breeds. ANd I just can't stop crying.

He always had time to answer questions. I have a great appreciation for the SOP and well bred heritage fowl.

Thank you for letting us know Arielle. I did enjoy his thread alot.

RIP Bob

 

[Lorilyn Farms]

There seems to be such a huff about pure breeding and Sop standards. Poultry is not like horses. Horses requires pedigrees to get into their prospective registries. Perhaps if they had chicken and turkey registries, lineage would matter. If you are a breeder to keep the breed pure, then lineage matters. However, if any bird from any "mutt" parents look like the breed the owner wants to show it under, the judges don't care who the parents are. If the bird meets the "looks" of the particular breed, it can win in ANY show, given how close it matches the standards of that breed. NOWHERE, is it required to show parentage for birds. Now, if there were a registry...that would be different. But since there isn't, and the shows and judges can only go by the looks of a particular bird, SOP isn't really worth the breath it takes to utter the word.

The reason breeds were created was to fulfill the wishes of breeders. More breast meat, brighter colors, smaller dogs, natural "watchdogs". These are all important things to consider when creating a new "breed". What do you want to accomplish? To me, a breed should breed true. There are several breeds of chicken that can be shown, but they don't breed true. Why is that? Because the powers that be decided they needed a way to be able to determine male from female at day one. Or the gene of a certain bird takes one or two genes to create the look, so you could end up with a black or blue or white bird, or a red, yellow or white bird.

There is a use for all animals. We all have our individual uses for our animals. A "breeder" should breed to better his/her breed. Me, I'm breeding brighter birds so I don't get them mixed up with the bronzed turkeys that are wild here. I don't plan on selling for breeding purposes, I plan on selling for meat (if i can part with them...)

Others should not be castigated for breeding for their own purposes. I like Porter's bird, especially the brighter, "new' breeds he is creating, because they breed true, whereas some of the "official' type birds don't breed true.

Not all breeds breed true. A pure blooded Appaloosa breed to another pureblooded Appy will not always throw a spotted foal. The smallest chihuahuas in the world will have some larger babies when bred to another tiny chi.

To say that we've have reached our limits for new breeds is kind of short-sighted. There will come a day when we need our animals to reach further, go faster, breed truer, swim underwater, find cancer in our owners, ...

Only time will tell where the new breeds take us, or where we will take the breeds we have...