turkeywith crooket feet.

[sweety birds]

hi there another question, this time about turkeys.

I hatched out turkey eggs sourced locally back in july. have never had turkey's before but have really enjoyed the experience so far. the eggs were sourced as dare I say means for a Christmas dinner home reared where I know they have been looked after and have been happy. any way I have really fallen in love with them and now have more eggs in the incy in minds of breeding my own for next year.
anyway to get to the point I have one turkey (ozwald) who has 2 cooket feet, his/her toes all bend sidey ways. she can perch and walk and it dosen't seem to bother her at all, reminds me of the vultures from jungle book when she runs as the bobs up and down. I have another turkey with one foot like this. have just hatched out another egg the other day (serenity)and she has one poss 2 feet like this. tried to straighten it but not working.
what I wonder is, if any of these guys are bred with/from will they pass on the crooked feet. it has been suggested that it is due to in breeding, the latest guys I have in the bator is from another source to ensure new blood into my stock, but the latest baby was from the same folk as the first lot if you understand what I mean.
Ozwald is slightly smaller (and a girl oops) so won't be fat enough to eat at Christmas, serenity will be too young, the one with one wonky foot is of average size. i'm asking because as it turns out these funny footed ones will prob be the ones coming to maturity first being older. funny footed ones are all from the same breeder if it's due to inbreeding will the others (10 in total) carry the wonky foot gene too? ie should any of them be bred from, or should I get yet another set of eggs from another breeder and try again? this will mean waiting until at least April so 2017 before getting our own chicks? if this is better I will do this. or will I be able to breed the wonky gene out?
or of course could it have been caused by another problem, incy temp ect. I am thinking of breeding defect as same breeder different incy's have hatched out last lot from new chick.
thanks in advance for any advise help in this area.
long message as trying to explain background to get best advise
thanks

 

[R2elk]

hi there another question, this time about turkeys.

I hatched out turkey eggs sourced locally back in july. have never had turkey's before but have really enjoyed the experience so far. the eggs were sourced as dare I say means for a Christmas dinner home reared where I know they have been looked after and have been happy. any way I have really fallen in love with them and now have more eggs in the incy in minds of breeding my own for next year.
anyway to get to the point I have one turkey (ozwald) who has 2 cooket feet, his/her toes all bend sidey ways. she can perch and walk and it dosen't seem to bother her at all, reminds me of the vultures from jungle book when she runs as the bobs up and down. I have another turkey with one foot like this. have just hatched out another egg the other day (serenity)and she has one poss 2 feet like this. tried to straighten it but not working.
what I wonder is, if any of these guys are bred with/from will they pass on the crooked feet. it has been suggested that it is due to in breeding, the latest guys I have in the bator is from another source to ensure new blood into my stock, but the latest baby was from the same folk as the first lot if you understand what I mean.
Ozwald is slightly smaller (and a girl oops) so won't be fat enough to eat at Christmas, serenity will be too young, the one with one wonky foot is of average size. i'm asking because as it turns out these funny footed ones will prob be the ones coming to maturity first being older. funny footed ones are all from the same breeder if it's due to inbreeding will the others (10 in total) carry the wonky foot gene too? ie should any of them be bred from, or should I get yet another set of eggs from another breeder and try again? this will mean waiting until at least April so 2017 before getting our own chicks? if this is better I will do this. or will I be able to breed the wonky gene out?
or of course could it have been caused by another problem, incy temp ect. I am thinking of breeding defect as same breeder different incy's have hatched out last lot from new chick.
thanks in advance for any advise help in this area.
long message as trying to explain background to get best advise
thanks

There is some possibility that foot problems can occur due to certain incubator conditions. Sorry I don't remember just what those conditions are. Foot problems can also be due do heredity.

I will not allow a defective turkey (foot or otherwise) in my breeding flock whether the problem is due to the incubator conditions or heredity. Actually I cull defective poults and don't even allow them to grow up and I don't pass defective turkeys on to other people because I cannot control what those people do with them. There are already too many people practicing poor breeding habits as it is.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Don't quote me but I think crooked toes has to do with something wrong in the incubation process, not genetics.

 

[sweety birds]

the turkey's got allowed to grow up as my plan was to eat them, and she dosn't seem to be bothered at all with her feet like they are. i am not planning on bad breeding habbits, hence the reason for the question in the first place. and the fact i have sourced from a completely different source for my eggs the second time. i do not plan to pass on my babies to anyone else unless dead and as an oven turkey to my close family for christmas. the reason i am thinking genetics is because the latest turkey was hatched out seperately from the other 2 and in a completely different incubator. i want to breed healthy happy turkeys that can lead a happy pain free life until they become my dinner. i wish to breed my own for my own self only, and do have some experience of animal breeding. but birds are different from other animals and i am still learning so wish to find out as much as i can. i don't believe in culling a healthy animal due to a funny foot, i only ever cull if the bird is in pain or ill health or can not live a normal life.as i'mjust a home breeder for my own enjoyment i have the luxuary to nurse poorly birds to full health and can use my discretion when it is necessary to cull. so please don't think i'm a careless breeder whom has no regard for the health and well being of my flock.
deformities are not always bread on in every animal and i was not sure how this worked in birds. i have been told by a few top prize winning breeders of birds that it is ok to breed family members, i'e brother sister dad daughter ect. i personally wouldn't do this but other breeders who have have had successful breeding ( this is not the breeders of my turkeys just to note).
having said all this. i will be happy to keep breeding groups seperate from these birds with wonky feet if it would breed on to the next generation. if it is due to in breeding for talking sake. would this be percent in the rest of the flock? i'e non of the flock should be bred from wonky feet or not?

 

[R2elk]

the turkey's got allowed to grow up as my plan was to eat them, and she doesn't seem to be bothered at all with her feet like they are. i am not planning on bad breeding habits, hence the reason for the question in the first place. and the fact i have sourced from a completely different source for my eggs the second time. i do not plan to pass on my babies to anyone else unless dead and as an oven turkey to my close family for christmas. the reason i am thinking genetics is because the latest turkey was hatched out separately from the other 2 and in a completely different incubator. i want to breed healthy happy turkeys that can lead a happy pain free life until they become my dinner. i wish to breed my own for my own self only, and do have some experience of animal breeding. but birds are different from other animals and i am still learning so wish to find out as much as i can. i don't believe in culling a healthy animal due to a funny foot, i only ever cull if the bird is in pain or ill health or can not live a normal life.as i'm just a home breeder for my own enjoyment i have the luxury to nurse poorly birds to full health and can use my discretion when it is necessary to cull. so please don't think i'm a careless breeder whom has no regard for the health and well being of my flock.
deformities are not always bread on in every animal and i was not sure how this worked in birds. i have been told by a few top prize winning breeders of birds that it is ok to breed family members, i'e brother sister dad daughter ect. i personally wouldn't do this but other breeders who have have had successful breeding ( this is not the breeders of my turkeys just to note).
having said all this. i will be happy to keep breeding groups separate from these birds with wonky feet if it would breed on to the next generation. if it is due to in breeding for talking sake. would this be percent in the rest of the flock? i'e non of the flock should be bred from wonky feet or not?

I sell my poults to people that I do not know therefore I cull anything that I would not have in my own breeding flock.

Line breeding is a commonly used method. Line breeding is father to daughter or mother to son.

Inbreeding is brother to sister and is discouraged but since lots of people start with just a trio that are hatched from the same parents it happens all too frequently.

Especially in a small gene pool, bad traits (deformities, etc.) can theoretically show up in 100% of the offspring. Depending whether or not the new trait is a dominant trait or not it could vary anywhere from 100% to almost none.

I personally will not allow any deformed or otherwise non-breed standard turkeys in my breeding flock.

 

[sweety birds]

so would you recommend i do not breed from any of the brothers and sisters of my turkey's with deformed feet? i know they(the folk i got the eggs from) have a large flock with quite a few stags running together with quite a few hens. so i kinda figure that some may be in bread i.e bro and sister and some may be line bread hence no deformities?
thanks for the clarification on breeding terms, that is really useful to know, i wasn't sure where the distinction between line breeding and in breeding was.
my turkey are bronze but some are silver i don't know if this is usual as i have never had turkey's before (bro inlaw has but were bought as day olds and were "the white kind").
like i say i only intend to hatch out for personal/family use.
i think i'll keep Ozwald and Serenity separate from the breeding pairs when the time comes. and they will get eaten once they are plump enough.

if i breed from the rest of the flock and eep an eye on their offspring for any recurring problems and make a decisions from there. what i intended to do would be keep the parents eat the kids so there should not be any chance of brother sister breeding as they will be culled before maturity is fully reached x

 

[R2elk]

so would you recommend i do not breed from any of the brothers and sisters of my turkey's with deformed feet? i know they(the folk i got the eggs from) have a large flock with quite a few stags running together with quite a few hens. so i kinda figure that some may be in bread i.e bro and sister and some may be line bread hence no deformities?
thanks for the clarification on breeding terms, that is really useful to know, i wasn't sure where the distinction between line breeding and in breeding was.
my turkey are bronze but some are silver i don't know if this is usual as i have never had turkey's before (bro inlaw has but were bought as day olds and were "the white kind").
like i say i only intend to hatch out for personal/family use.
i think i'll keep Ozwald and Serenity separate from the breeding pairs when the time comes. and they will get eaten once they are plump enough.

if i breed from the rest of the flock and keep an eye on their offspring for any recurring problems and make a decisions from there. what i intended to do would be keep the parents eat the kids so there should not be any chance of brother sister breeding as they will be culled before maturity is fully reached x

Check out Porter's Rare Heritage Turkeys site and you may be able to figure out what variety of turkeys that you have.

My number one suggestion is to get over the idea of breeding pairs. Turkeys are in no way monogamous and do not do well in pairs. My recommendation is one tom to four or five hens. Multiple toms especially if they are equally matched do not do well in the same enclosure. Separation of toms works best if the toms are in separate pens and the pens are such that the toms cannot actually see each other through the fences. Toms kept in separate pens with wire fencing that they can easily see through will spend the majority of their time trying to fight through the fences.

Having multiple hens in with a single tom helps prevent damage being done to the hens by an over zealous tom. It also greatly helps if you are planning on having the hens do their own incubation and brooding since not all of the hens will go broody at the same time leaving some to keep the tom busy. Nesting hens need to be protected from the toms so that they can sit on their eggs in peace. Toms that do not have hens to keep them busy will take the fact that the hen sitting on the nest is inviting them to breed. Such undesired breeding attempts meet with a lack of cooperation by the hens and at the least results in broken eggs and at the worst can result in the hen being killed by the tom.

Eventually you will need to replace your breeders. I believe that I once read that Porter keeps his toms until they are four years old and that he keeps his hens until they are five or six years old. I tend to breed and raise my own replacement toms and try to bring in replacement hens from unrelated stock.

 

[sweety birds]

thanks so much for the information and advise R2elk, very very much appreciated. obviously it is highly dependent on what i get hatching out of this next lot of eggs i only have 12 in the bator and they were postal eggs so i'm not holding out for a fantastic hatch. but 2 separate colonies would not be a problem. i'm not planning on keeping 100s. depending on what numbers/genders i get from this hatch it may only be one breeding group. i'm guessing it will prob be a stag from the new hatch i'm waiting for and hens from the excising lot. i have 12 turkey's 4 of which are big stags and will be prob eaten comes christmas. that leaves 8 so even when i take out the funny feeted ones that should still leave 6 for the stag should he so wish. i'm guessing turkeys will be much like chicken hens when it comes to nesting i.e would rather find their own nest area rather than use the bonny one you left for her in a quiet corner, so i intend to have a few extra huts out on the range ready for when the time comes for her/them to choose from. but should none go broody i would be prepared to incubate my self. well not myself, in the incubator. it's interesting to know how long you can keep a hen/stag that will be really usefull, i persume you should also look for drops in egg production/fertile eggs as a guide to when stock should be swapped as well? i will watch for health and any deformities in the next generation, and should any at all turn up will stop using the excising stock.
another question, should i have more than one breeding conoly can they be allowed to gether out with the breeding period? of should they always be kept separate? very conflicting advise on this so far

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

You need to only separate your turkeys if you are looking for a certain Tom to breed a certain hen, otherwise they can all run together if you just want more turkeys.

 

[sweety birds]

thanks very much to everyone for the info and advice.
very much appreciated, think I know what i'm going to do now. just a waiting game for the next batch of poults to hatch. fingers crossed.
I don't know if i should start a separate thread for this but I wonder if anyone could tell me, why are some of my Bronze turkeys a silver/steal coloured, is this a normal variation or is it more likely that a non bronze turkey has sneaked in some where?