Two food/grit questions

[PhantomSlayer]

My mother and I are soon to get our first flock. Where we get the chicks keeps changing for reasons. But now that were 2-3 weeks away from it I thought of two questions that I would like to have answered.

Firstly medicated vs non medicated? So where were looking at getting chicks is our local Family Farm and Home. I don't know if they get vaccinated. My mother planning on using purina start & grow feed. Should I push for medicated food or no if my mother doesn't end up finding out. The flock will be free range after their settled

Second question. Chick grit.. When do you think would be a reasonable time to start introducing it? I read when you start feeding them treats or when they go out into the coop. But my mom is talking about allowing them at 2-3 weeks to spend an hour or two outside in the run. So the question stands when SHOULD we start grit?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Firstly medicated vs non medicated? So where were looking at getting chicks is our local Family Farm and Home. I don't know if they get vaccinated. My mother planning on using purina start & grow feed. Should I push for medicated food or no if my mother doesn't end up finding out. The flock will be free range after their settled

I'll copy something I wrote on medicated feed which should answer a lot of questions on how it works. It is a long article but maybe you can make a more informed choice.

First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers, that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. For them to reproduce they need some moisture. Slightly damp isn't an issue, soaking wet is. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

Second question. Chick grit.. When do you think would be a reasonable time to start introducing it? I read when you start feeding them treats or when they go out into the coop. But my mom is talking about allowing them at 2-3 weeks to spend an hour or two outside in the run. So the question stands when SHOULD we start grit?

When SHOULD you? Before they eat much of anything other than chick feed. Grit is used in the gizzard to grind up any food that needs to be ground up.

When COULD you? One of the first things my broody hens do when she brings her chicks off of the nest is to take them to a place they can peck at the ground. They are getting various things from that pecking but one of them is grit. That way she does not have to worry about them eating anything that needs to be ground up. So you "can" give them grit any time after they hatch. I like to wait a couple of days so they know what their food is first. I give them grit by giving them dirt. I cover that in the article above.

 

[nuthatched]

Medicated feed just limits the chances of Coccidosis overload, if they're inside for the first few weeks, it's usually an issue so it's not necessary. It's not going to help anything else.

 

[PhantomSlayer]

@Ridgerunner I have a question. We have 12 chicks and its been 10 days since we've had them. 4 seem like their older anyways onto my question. So I've been adding fresh bedding whenever things look sparse/flattened which is rougly every 2-3 days as their getting older.. Right now I have to refill their food every 2-3 days and I'm replacing their water once or twice a day.

They were digging a hole into the bedding so I thought I would attempt a dust bath with dirt/sand and used a plastic lid from one of the planters you plant seeds in to germinate them before adding them to gardens. Well I sifted through for bigger objects and toss those and got it to dry up a bit. Well... When I put it in with them.. They ate. And ate. And ate. Over half kept eating but I was worried about them eating to much so I took it away before I left.

I think the dust bath idea failed however I know it helps them build their immunity up so how often should I let them have access to it? I havn't given them grit yet but we havn't been giving them anything other than their food. So I'm not sure whether their using it as grit or just eating because its new? I just dont want them to fill up to much and not have enough time for it to leave their systems lol

 

[rosemarythyme]

They were digging a hole into the bedding so I thought I would attempt a dust bath with dirt/sand and used a plastic lid from one of the planters you plant seeds in to germinate them before adding them to gardens. Well I sifted through for bigger objects and toss those and got it to dry up a bit. Well... When I put it in with them.. They ate. And ate. And ate. Over half kept eating but I was worried about them eating to much so I took it away before I left.

I think the dust bath idea failed however I know it helps them build their immunity up so how often should I let them have access to it? I havn't given them grit yet but we havn't been giving them anything other than their food. So I'm not sure whether their using it as grit or just eating because its new? I just dont want them to fill up to much and not have enough time for it to leave their systems lol

I'd start by supplying grit, unless you've seen that there's rocks in the dirt of appropriate size. It's normal for them to eat new things out of curiosity, but yes if they were gorging on it it was better to take it away for now. You can probably try bringing back the tray each day and supervise to see how they do with it, I suspect they'll still try eating some of it but hopefully the novelty will wear off gradually.

 

[PhantomSlayer]

I'd start by supplying grit, unless you've seen that there's rocks in the dirt of appropriate size. It's normal for them to eat new things out of curiosity, but yes if they were gorging on it it was better to take it away for now. You can probably try bringing back the tray each day and supervise to see how they do with it, I suspect they'll still try eating some of it but hopefully the novelty will wear off gradually.

XD thats what I figured they werent even scratching around they were just eating and eating it and I was like "welp this probably wont sit for long" So should I give them grit before attempting again?? I was thinking of hand feeding them then supplying grit and then giving them the dust bath.. Maybe them having enough food and some grit will help it wear off so they'll be more interested in relaxing in the dirt rather than tasting it lol

 

[Ridgerunner]

I give them dirt every 3 to 4 days. That's often enough to keep the right bugs in their system so they can gain immunity.

How much for grit. It doesn't take a lot. How long it lasts depends on what rocks you have in your soil. Some rocks are hard and last. Some are soft and get ground up fairly quickly. Maybe two tablespoons per chick for the dirt every 3 or 4 days.

I've never purchased grit or chick grit for them, I don't know what the bags recommend. The grit you purchase is granite, a by-product of a granite quarry. They sieve the wastes to get the right sizes. Granite is really hard, a larger bit adult sized used as grit might last as long as a month. If the bag has a recommendation I'd go by that. Since Rosemarythyme does purchase grit she is a more reliable source than me. If I had to come up with a number I'd guess 1 tablespoon per week would be plenty.

My broody hens keep their chicks on dirt (whether bare or in grass) all day, they don't over-indulge in dirt. But being in a brooder is different, it makes it harder.

 

[rosemarythyme]

So should I give them grit before attempting again?? I was thinking of hand feeding them then supplying grit and then giving them the dust bath.. Maybe them having enough food and some grit will help it wear off so they'll be more interested in relaxing in the dirt rather than tasting it lol

I would, just to be safe, if you don't think they're finding appropriate rocks in the soil. They may still want to eat the soil though, go figure.

For reference, this is the size of rocks you're looking for:

I've never purchased grit or chick grit for them, I don't know what the bags recommend. The grit you purchase is granite, a by-product of a granite quarry. They sieve the wastes to get the right sizes. Granite is really hard, a larger bit adult sized used as grit might last as long as a month. If the bag has a recommendation I'd go by that. Since Rosemarythyme does purchase grit she is a more reliable source than me. If I had to come up with a number I'd guess 1 tablespoon per week would be plenty.

I do a "pinch" in their food dish, as if you were lightly seasoning a meal with salt. Once every 3-5 days should be plenty. I don't offer dishes of grit as some chicks may be inclined to gorge on it, so this prevents them from overindulging. Once they're ready for grower size grit (about 8 weeks old for a standard size chick), then I discontinue adding any to food and the grit sits in a dispenser inside my coop.

 

[cityhomesteading]

I would, just to be safe, if you don't think they're finding appropriate rocks in the soil. They may still want to eat the soil though, go figure.

For reference, this is the size of rocks you're looking for:
View attachment 3450592

I do a "pinch" in their food dish, as if you were lightly seasoning a meal with salt. Once every 3-5 days should be plenty. I don't offer dishes of grit as some chicks may be inclined to gorge on it, so this prevents them from overindulging. Once they're ready for grower size grit (about 8 weeks old for a standard size chick), then I discontinue adding any to food and the grit sits in a dispenser inside my coop.

This was very helpful!