Two late hatchers...when to help?

[lazy gardener]

When I have had successful "assists", it's been after leaving them with a self made pip hole until long after I'm convinced that they are not progressing, and that they are not going to progress, often waiting until the next morning. By then, they're very glued in, the membranes are very dry, and they most likely need a hot tub experience to get freed from their membranes. At that point, there's no risk of them bleeding out! My first assist last year went on to become a very good layer. This year, due to a difficult hatch, I had to assist 3 or 4 to varying degrees, 2 required hot tubbing! And they are all doing fine. I consider the fact that they needed assist to be more of an aspect of my poor handling of the hatch than an inherent weakness in the chick. And I fully support the thought process that "an assisted chick" is not worthy of taking a place in the gene pool of the flock.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

I don't help my chicks. I know that seems a little inhumane but I don't want those genes passing down to other chicks and I have actually experienced first hand that helping chicks can make them bleed to death in your hands which is not something I want to go through again but that's just me

It doesn't always have to do with genes though. A lot of the reasoning chicks need help is our imperfections of providing them with the proper conditions to hatch at. (IE: humidity, temps) Stuff that has nothing to do with genetics and passing down weak genes. Yes, when assisting you can make a chick bleed out and that is because the assist is being done too soon and the chick isn't ready. If an assist is done right, it can be very successfull. I've done a handful (to varying degrees) and only had two fail to survive after hatch. One was a day 25 hatcher, (I find through experience and talking to others that assisted hatchers that are severly delayed seldom result in a surviving chick.,) and one that made it over week but had sever pasty butt and digestive problems that I could not clear up. The others have been awesome. As a matter of fact, one of my good layers was a very malepositioned (my first ever malepositioned) chick that would have died w/o help.

But you have to be comfortable with assisting, confident that you know what you are doing and that it is needed and actually do it right. It's a slow and long process when done right. It's not for everyone.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

You've even got to be really careful when helping even if you're only using them for meat. The hatching process is what makes the chick strong. If the chick can't hatch by itself it is very likely that it will be smaller than the others and much weaker and can fall prey to being pecked to death by coop mates. In my personal opinion I would say never help a chick hatch no matter the conditions.

Totally disagree.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

I've helped dozens of them. The vast majority did fine. A few died a few hours after hatch and a very few died within a few minutes. I had the same concerns as you when I started. I found though, that helping a chick (when needed) wasn't a guaranteed death sentence and I was actually able to "save" them. It takes some experience to know when to help and when not to help. Either way, if you own them, and want to help them, I see no problem with it. It's really the only way to learn.

There are very few absolute "rights" and "wrongs" in hatching chickens.

I absolutely agree.

 

[WalnutHill]

With assisted hatching, I've killed a few that were late (either I put them in the incubator a day or two late and failed to pay attention to the date on the egg or they ended up behind schedule due to imperfect incubation), failed to save a few (too late to assist, assisted too early and caused the chick to hatch out prematurely, saved a few that would not have hatched and should not have hatched, and saved a few that would not have hatched and should have hatched.

Whatever you choose, do not second guess your decision. Be prepared to cull if a chick is hatched with severe defects, and be prepared to rejoice if you've saved an oversized chick from certain death because it could not hatch.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

With assisted hatching, I've killed a few that were late (either I put them in the incubator a day or two late and failed to pay attention to the date on the egg or they ended up behind schedule due to imperfect incubation), failed to save a few (too late to assist, assisted too early and caused the chick to hatch out prematurely, saved a few that would not have hatched and should not have hatched, and saved a few that would not have hatched and should have hatched.

Whatever you choose, do not second guess your decision. Be prepared to cull if a chick is hatched with severe defects, and be prepared to rejoice if you've saved an oversized chick from certain death because it could not hatch.

That's what I try to get through to people I help. You can not second guess yourself. You have to be able to live with your decision and move on. You will drive yourself crazy with second guessing and there is nothing you can do to change your decision. You have to be able to say "what is to be is" and deal with it.

 

[aaronclements8]

I'm not saying that everyone has to agree with me about helping chicks. Just from my experience helping chicks hatch CAN have disasterous effects. I have helped chicks hatch that have lived but their eggs had the same problem when hatching (I label the eggs according to what hen they come from) they are Rhode Island Reds. I have had ones that bled out on me which was probably my fault I may have helped it too early. I have also had one that made it to adult hood and was later killed by his (yes it was a rooster) coop mates because he was weaker and smaller. This is my experience with helping eggs hatch. Yall may have had different results and I think that's wonderful! I just don't help my chicks hatch.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

I'm not saying that everyone has to agree with me about helping chicks. Just from my experience helping chicks hatch CAN have disasterous effects. I have helped chicks hatch that have lived but their eggs had the same problem when hatching (I label the eggs according to what hen they come from) they are Rhode Island Reds. I have had ones that bled out on me which was probably my fault I may have helped it too early. I have also had one that made it to adult hood and was later killed by his (yes it was a rooster) coop mates because he was weaker and smaller. This is my experience with helping eggs hatch. Yall may have had different results and I think that's wonderful! I just don't help my chicks hatch.

I wasn't disagreeing with your decision not to help,(To each their own.) I was disagreeing with the senteminent that one should never help no matter the conditions. I do not feel that someone that is uncomfortable assisting should assist, chances are they would do more damage than good anyway. Most disasterous effects do occur from botched assistance. A lot of it depends on why you are hatching too. Then there's the business/personal aspect. If you are in it as a source of money many times you are more "cold" or "insensative" to the life itself. I acknowledge that ruthlessness is a better bed partner to the business person than sensativity and if there was more sensativity there'd be less money, but for some of us it's an issue of another life, of acknowleding that animals are sentient beings and because of that we can not sit by and determine their lives invalid because they don't meet a higher standard. I have a roo (hatched on it's own during my badly delayed first hatch) that is what I consider a special needs bird due to a balance issue. He will never be able to be part of the flock as his issue puts him at a disadvantage with other roos and he can not roost. He will never be used as a breeder, though I think he's a pretty boy. I hatched him, he is my responsibility. I love the guy, even though his only function is basically being a pet. Just because he can't make me money or quality offspring doesn't mean his life needs to be cut short. I am a softie when it comes to animal life. There's many more animals I'd rather see have the option of life than human individuals.

 

[aaronclements8]

That's your prerogative and I highly respect that! I'm not into it for the business. I'm in it for the fun. I love watching my pheasants and chickens just haven't had good luck with helping eggs hatch before. Probably because I'm very impatient (thanks dad).

 

[WalnutHill]

Amy, I know you were not talking to me...I am just going to state my position.

Just because I raise my birds for commercial purposes doesn't mean I devalue their lives, I probably respect them more than many people who raise them for pets.

While their lives are in my hands, they are treated humanely and if euthanizing is necessary, it's done. I had to put down my beautiful, hand raised, son of Porter's Narragansett tom, my firstborn and all time favorite turkey, by putting a pellet into his head after a dog mauled him. When my layer hens are laid out (production reds lay well for about a year and a half) I sell them. If I can find backyard chicken keepers to buy them, that has a "warm and fuzzy" feeling...yet if I sell them to someone who wants to butcher them for soup, that is also a responsible option as though their lives may be shortened, they will still be useful.

It's hard to cull a crippled chick, but sometimes it's the right thing to do. I've also gone through extreme measures trying to save birds with no chance of survival. I have kept "useless" birds around because I liked them, like a couple of six year old Ameraucana hens that were past laying, but they were the flock grandmothers and instructed many new batches of youngsters on how to use nest boxes.

I may be inconsistent, but even with my commercial poultry aspect, I still have my soft side.