Ugh... UPDATED WITH PICS OF LEG ISSUE

[brandislee]

Oh, no, I mean the other batch I have right now, that's eating the same feed out of the same bags.... not the batch I got this spring. I don't really consider forage for broilers because I don't seem them forage much. I don't know how it gets ingrained into them to ONLY eat feed- you'd think as hungry as they are all the time they would want to eat at least the easy stuff. But I even tried to give the older batch a half a cantaloupe from my garden and they didn't give it a second look (my layers, on the other hand, are ALL OVER any melon I give them...).

I'm giving them the older vitamins now because I can't make it to town until tomorrow, but I'll get a new packet then. I brought another one in this morning (so 9 total now) and a few others I noticed could walk but their toes are curled under a little.

All I have to say is thank GOD for the internet and BYC, because if it weren't for them I don't know WHAT I would be doing in this situation... of course I possibly wouldn't have chickens at all in that case...

 

[Tracydr]

All of the water soluble vitamins break down fairly quickly with time, heat, light and improper handling. This is why it's important for feed and vitamins to be fresh. It's also why feed deficiencies are more common in animals at the end of winter when forage is scarce ( horses on older hay) and late summer when forage is losing quality.
I always worry about chicken feed as it is a least cost type of feed and probably not the best quality animal feed we can buy. Plus, it's highly processed, heated, and who knows how long it sits around in storage? Then, we feed it to broilers, who have the biggest nutrition requirements of any animal known to man, because of their rapid growth rates, and we're bound to see nutritional deficiencies like we see in textbooks. I've resorted to heavy supplementation, especially with fresh sprouts, yogurt, greens, whole grains and fresh fruits. I sprout many of the whole grains for the smaller chicks, feeding mung beans, fenugreek, wheat, mustard, and any other fresh seeds and legumes I can come up with.
Actually fascinating for someone like me, who studied nutrition for their Masters and never got to see all the cool deficiencies you see in textbooks, except an occasional B12 deficiency or iron deficiency.
If you start giving the broilers a variety of feeds from day one, right in the brooder, they seem to be better able to handle the idea of foraging and eating fresh foods and forage. At least, mine have. Just make sure they have some find grit.

 

[brandislee]

I will start giving them some sprouts, too- I have always given my broilers fermented dairy (anything we have in surplus) but with me switching to more expensive milk I've been a little more guarded with it. And like I said, I'm not encouraged to give the broilers more variety because they never seem to eat much of it.

But what you say totally makes sense- not a lot of people raise broilers her in the fall, so it's possible that the broiler feed has been sitting longer than ideal, which would explain why I didn't have problems with the same feed in the spring. I'm still debating about whether or not I want to mention it to the feed store... I think just supplementing with vites in the water, sprouts, and greens may be my best bet. Coincidentally I have turnip greens I could feed them (and beet greens soon).

Are there any sprouts that are the best for them, so far as nutrients that may be missing in the feed? Would sprouted wheat be enough (that's what I have on hand...)?

I'm pretty sure this is my last time doing broilers, as much as I hate to say that. Esp considering the expense I put (not a lot, but still) into the tractors and other equipment. But with my layers I have been free ranging a lot more than I ever thought I would be comfortable with, so next year I think I'm going to raise up some dual purpose chicks, hopefully ones hatched by me assuming I figure out a way to monitor who is laying which eggs and hatch from the hens I want (the bigger DP hens). I can raise up the roos in a mobile coop/tractor by retrofitting my current tractors, then process them in the fall. I know that broilers are more efficient and fill out faster, but that's comparing DP's on a conventional feed diet to Broilers fed all feed. I wonder how the efficiency would compare between free ranged roosters and Broilers, meaning how much feed would they consume in the 18 or so weeks it would take them to fill out? And how much noise will they make?

 

[wyoDreamer]

Quote:
Just a thought, could you put your big dual purpose hens into one of your tractors with a roo and gather those eggs for hatching meat birds?

Or as someone suggested somewhere on this mountain of information we call BYC - put food coloring around the vents of the birds you want to save eggs from and set the eggs that are stained? I don't know how long that would last, maybe someone with actual knowledge will know.

 

[brandislee]

That food coloring thing is pretty clever... I don't see it being super 100% effective, but it may do the trick for what I need. I was thinking about setting up a wireless web cam that could broadcast and save the footage to my computer, depending on how much that would cost. But I don't really know how effective that would be, as I could still mix the eggs up.

So long as all my barred rocks keep laying consistantly well, I know I want to hatch from them. The others (the EE's) are easy to tell apart, and the only other layers I have are my bantys (who lay on the floor) and my lemon orph, who I'm starting to think may be a dud, as all I've seen from her are soft/no shelled/porous shelled eggs. But if I did hatch from her it would be okay, as she's huge also (just not a great layer, which is why I would avoid her if I could).

 

[brandislee]

Oh, and they seem to be recovering nicely! I haven't had to bring another inside since yesterday morning, and the ones inside are starting to regain the use of their feet/legs. Here's a pic of one of them:

Thanks to everyone who helped me, esp. Tracydr- I couldn't have handled this without all the help and support!

 

[bigredfeather]

Quote:
I'm guessing it would be close to a wash unless you have some really good foraging area, and at the end of the day you won't get as much meat and you spent 10-12 additional weeks getting there. Yeah your layers can get away with it, but they are only maintaining the body weight they developed on feed and only need enough additional calories/nutrition to produce 4 or 5 eggs per week. I free range my layers and can tell you after free ranging all Summer they lose some of there pre-Summer weight. Having to be in constant motion to find food burns off a lot of what they are eating. If you tractor them, there isn't going to be enough bugs (protein) in that small of an area to support good growth. I know you're discouraged by this, but I hate seeing people give up on CX after 1 or even a few bad expiriences. With more expirience raising them, you're issues will be eliminated.

If you think old feed that has lost nutrients is potentially the cause of your problems, I would suggest trying to find a feed mill that will custom make your feed. It's will be cheaper and fresher. When I pick-up my feed at my mill, it was ground and mixed that day, so I know it's always fresh. I have my doubts that is the problem. Even if you have to drive a good distance to get it, the price difference may offset the gas. Right now I am paying $11.60/50# for a very balanced 22% protein feed.

 

[Tracydr]

Quote:
Great news!

 

[brandislee]

FINAL UPDATE: I moved the last of the chicks back outside yesterday. The night before that (Friday night) all of them were walking except one, whose toes were still pretty badly curled, so I made a boot for him. I was a little worried when I moved them outside that the booted one would struggle, but he's all over the place and has not problem getting in and out of their shelter and was pigging out with the rest this morning. I'm going to leave the boot on (I just used a piece of stiff cardboard cut to the shape of his food and some duct tape) for another day or two to be sure they straighten.

Such a relief that it's all over!

 

[slikchik]

Don't give up on broilers! Especially now that you've found the problem.

I lost 5 of my first 15, and 6 of my second 10 to boneheaded moves. The five were due to using the wrong litter - I had free fresh wood mulch in the back yard that I was putting them on and it gave them respiratory issues. As soon as I switched to kiln-dried pine shavings, I quit losing birds. The second six were taken by a racoon from the tractor over two nights, he was pulling them through the wire. I wrapped the next tractor in 1/4" hardware cloth and haven't had a coon problem since. We all live and learn. This year (and last) I put 20 birds in the freezer with zero losses and next year I'll do 40.

Keep trying, you've already overcome the worst part.