Uncoordinated, falling over, unable to walk.....botulism?!

[cackleberrylinda]

I am having the very same thing with my babies. They one by one seem to be getting whatever it is. I have buried 4 in the past 10 days. Pretty darned sick of this for sure. Does anyone think I should maybe give them some additional tetracycline? They are getting water with homemade electrolytes, the bedding is pine shavings and they have mediated chick starter. All seem happy and full of energy till this bloody disease, whatever, strikes. I have raised baby chicks off and on for 30 some years and never had such difficulties as I have had this year. It's just darned depressing. I have given some of the other sick ones some goldenseal, but perhaps, too late to do any good. It's a head scratcher for sure.

 

[MotherJean]

Mareks is not a transitory disease. It doesn't show symptoms and then allow the symptoms to disappear as fast as they came. Mareks has been likened to "chicken cancer." There are several strains of Mareks that attack specific body systems - neurological, visceral, and ocular. Neurological Mareks causes tremors, limping, uncoordination and paralysis due to lesions (sores) on the brain. Even a chick infected with Mareks on day one will rarely show symptoms prior to 5 weeks of age - it takes time for those lesions to grow and begin to disrupt neurological function. More importantly, those lesions don't go away. A chick with Mareks will simply progress from uncoordination to paralysis.

I can't say for a certainty what is troubling your chicks, but if you're saying that some of these chicks got well as fast as they got sick, I would bet money that they didn't/don't have Mareks.

 

[NellaBean]

Should have given more info in my last post. The first two birds to get sick both recovered within days. One relapsed within a week or so and did die. The other has been fine ever since (she was one of the oldest birds to get sick, but still a baby). The others all seemed to present symptoms in the same way. I would find a bird down in a brooder. Sprawled out on the side of the pen up against the wall or propped up back on its hocks....most moved on to a wry neck sort of paralysis, moving toward complete paralysis and dying within 1-2 days. The wry neck seemed to be the common factor. I still have no idea if it was some other sort of bug working its way through the birds, marek's, botulism, etc. I did do a good cleaning of the brooders midway through and still had a couple birds come up sick a week or two later. I had over 100 babies and so I don't know if it was marek's or not. I would have thought it would have taken out more birds if so.

I have not had any symptoms in weeks or possibly over a month. All babies have been moved out to the outdoor pens...I do have a single failure to thrive chick out there...a wheaten marans pullet. She is teeny tiny and only partially feathered but is doing fine and has no other symptoms. Everyone else is fine and dandy. I tried to find a connecting factor....but if affected brahmas from TSC, a cochin from TSC, wheaten marans I had purcashed from an individual.....etc....it affected birds in separate brooders. One bird in the garage brooder went down same day as a bird in the outside brooder pen. I did wonder if it may have been something missing in the food so went back and forth between the baby food and the flockraiser. I did not have a single d'uccle come down with symptoms, even when they were in the same brooder with one of the down birds.

It was very strange. I assumed marek's....however because it has not spread, I don't know if that is right. I have broody babies that were fine and dandy even once exposed to the brooder babies. Maybe it was something in the shavings? That could be a connecting factor. I haven't added any new shavings to the big coop (where the broody babies are) in forever. All brooders had the same 'batch' of shavings.

Really hard to say. It was incredibly frustrating when it was happening and surprising that it suddenly stopped and everyone is perfectly fine. The last bird to show any sort of symptom was a Wheaten Marans cockerel....who started "drooping"....it was like he couldn't hold his head up. I hadn't had any new "sick" birds in a week or two and was frustrated to see him 'drooping". I would find him standing with his neck hanging straight down.....I left him in that brooder and notcied him laying on the far side with his head propped up on a board in there. Within 2-3 days I noticed there were no longer any "droopy" birds in there. I cleaned that brooder out well looking for a body, and turns out he was back to normal and healthy. Was it an injury? A deficiency that corrected itself? He is still absolutely fine and well.

Every single chicken on my property not in the brooders has been fine all along. Every single chick or chicken on my property as of right now is fine and dandy (other than that failure to thrive chick who is small and scrawny looking but acts fine). Very very strange. I had held off on selling any birds while this was going on and have just started moving birds out again. Either everyone now has a great resistance to marek's (doubtful) or it was some other thing running through that has since run its course. No relapses, no symptoms, nothing. Everyone seems fine now.

Isn't wry neck something related to a vitamin or feed deficiency? after the first two that recovered, every chick that died had wry neck. It mostly affected the brahma boys, so I tended to think it may have been some sort of congenital defect. However, I have plenty of brahma boys who did not every show any symptoms and are fine.

 

[Laina]

Thanks MamaJean and Robdolbs for the info!! I started the PolyViSol yesterday, so hopefully that will help. I also offered some baby food that was applesauce/oatmeal, but neither chick was interested in that. The one off-balance chick seems to be doing ok, but I continue to find her stuck on her back. She was drinking very well yesterday, though, so I am remaining optimistic and will continue to provide supportive care for her! Thank you for all the help!

 

[kelar]

You may want to check out the symptoms for avian encephalitis, which can cause mareks type symptoms with very young chicks. I believe this can be transmitted via the egg. From what I've read, some birds do recover from this & others die.

 

[MotherJean]

In general, there are about 4 main causes of torticollis (wry neck) in chickens: Mareks, Newcastle, Fowl Cholera, and Vitamin E/Selenium deficiency. There are some other viral and bacterial infections that can result in torticollis if they infect the brain producing meningitis, but this is fairly uncommon. If I am reading your last post correctly, this illness and the few deaths you've experienced seem to be confined to your brooder chicks - so, presumably chicks under the age of, say, 6 weeks? If that's correct, then I tend to lean toward the possibility that the problem is nutritional - specifically the Vitamin E/Selenium deficiency.

Here's some selected information I pulled from the College of Vet. Medicine at Cornell: (I've highlighted a couple of pertinent points)


"Diets deficient in vitamin E can lead to a variety of disorders in poultry including encephalomalacia, exudative diathesis, and muscular dystrophy. Clinical signs usually manifest in the first few weeks of life. In adults, no outward signs of illness occur. However, the hatchability of eggs from vitamin E-deficient chickens and turkeys is reduced."

"Most cases of vitamin E deficiency occur in birds that are fed rations high in polyunsaturated fats (e.g. cod liver oil and soy bean oil). When vitamin E in these diets becomes oxidized (rancid), the vitamin is no longer bio-available."

Clinical Signs

"In encephalomalacia, nervous signs typically begin between 15-30 days of age. However, the onset of clinical signs has been observed in chicks as young as 7 days old and as late as 56 days old. Signs may include ataxia (loss of balance and falling backward), opisthotonus, torticollis, myoclonus (repeated muscle contractions of the legs), paresis, and prostration. Birds showing neurologic signs often continue to eat."

"In exudative diathesis in chicks, capillary walls become abnormally permeable and subcutaneous edema develops. This edema is often located along the ventrum of the thorax, abdomen, and under the mandible. The edema may appear to have a slightly greenish-blue color, due to the hemoglobin breakdown of the leaking red blood cells. If extensive edema develops, birds may have difficulty walking and may stand with their legs spread apart."


It should be easy to confirm whether or not nutritional deficiency is causing you problems. First, I would suggest buying your chick starter in smaller quantity to assure that it is as fresh as possible. Second, I would offer Polyvisol (without iron) in the drinking water for all chicks while in the brooder. After doing this, if you continue to see chicks exhibiting symptoms as before, then I would suggest having a postmortem (necropsy) done on one or two to determine for a certainty what you are dealing with.

 

[cackleberrylinda]

Hi,
I had two more babies go down today. I suspected Coccidiosis and went all over in search of Corid. Then, I called the County Extension and talked with the Avian Lab Doctor to verify the amounts to add to the waterer. Hard to figure out cuz I sure am not needing 100 gallons, I hope. In talking with her, she said the medication in the medicated feed is the same as Corid. And that if my babies have had medicated feed all this time, probably it is a strain of cocci that is resistant to the Corid. Of course without a postmortem exam she cannot say for sure. And so now I need to get Salmed and if all this has messed with their gut I also need to give them BMD, or Bacitracin. Ya know, ya kinda have to do it because, geez, these little guys count on you and you grow to love them. And that is besides the fact that you spent all your food budget for chicks cuz ya just gotta have little peepers this spring. So, where does the money for meds come from? Ohhh, let's just say there will be no Direct TV for a month or so. Forgive me, if I present information that is Old Hat here. Hope it spares someone some loss and grief.

 

[cackleberrylinda]

And please, what is wry neck? Is that where their neck folds back on itself sort of and twists to the side or back?

 

[MotherJean]

CackleberryLinda: The drug you were referred to is sulfamethazine sodium sold under the brand name of Sulmet. "Wry neck" is a general description of a neck that is severely twisted up, down, and even sometimes laterally. Here's an example of a chicken suffering wry neck. Some will bend backward so the chicken is looking up at the sky, too.

 

[DragonEggs]

I'm glad I caught sight of this post! I have a sizzle naked neck somewhere between 8-10 weeks old thats acting funny. Most of my flock had sry fowl pox but only 2 of my birds have really bad sores, some dont even have any signs, this little thing (still not sure if pullet or cockerel) doesn't have any sores or signs in it's mouth or throat of wet pox. I had moved him in with my older chickens for a couple of days and though none were picking on him he wasn't sleeping with the others at night and it had me a little worried so I put him back in with the other 6-8 week olds I had him with. I had given him a bath about a week ago (he's my favorite, I love his feather type so I like to wash and fluff dry him and let him wander around my room) and he was just fine.

Today when I went out to feed the babies he was laying on his side kicking his little legs and wiggling his wings but couldn't get up. I placed him on his feet but he just wobbled and fell over. I also noticed my youngest chick in the bunch, a 5 week old OEG was lying on it's back peeping and the others were just trampling over them. I took the 2 out and set out a bowl of sugar water and some chick starter mushed up in milk. The youngest one just stood by the water and drank for nearly 30 minutes. It was able to stand just fine but just drank the whole time. The naked neck drank very little but seemed to almost attack the food, it was so eager for it! It was at this time I noticed how SKINNY he was! Literally nothin but skin and bones! He was so fluffy I hadn't noticed the breast bone jutting out! He ate eagerly (with e holding him the whole time because he STILL couldn't stand). After eating ALOT of food and taking a couple of sips of water he was able to stand on his own for a little bit so I put the 2 in a cage together awhile. I checked on them a bit ago and he was still not able to stand on his own but he is still eating and drinking.

I have NO IDEA whats wrong.