Unhatched chicks/ducklings and chirping

[TJAnonymous]

OK, I have a question for you long-time, experienced incubators.

If a chick/duckling has NOT pipped into the air cell but is chirping, would that mean it has pipped in a different part of the egg and is breathing air, right?

Can a chick/duckling chirp WITHOUT breaking the shell membrane?

 

[JacinLarkwell]

They have to have access to air to chirp. Otherwise the fluid/liquid/membrane, whatever, would muffle the sound

 

[BirdsBeesTrees]

Usually if they are malpositioned and trying to externally pip you will see a brown spot on the eggshell.

 

[MGG]

OK, I have a question for you long-time, experienced incubators.

If a chick/duckling has NOT pipped into the air cell but is chirping, would that mean it has pipped in a different part of the egg and is breathing air, right?

Can a chick/duckling chirp WITHOUT breaking the shell membrane?

Yes, usually they pip the pointy end if they aren't in the correct position, though they'll pip through the middle of the egg sometimes too. It might be a very tiny pip that doesn't break the membrane but breaks through the shell. That lets in plenty of air for them to fill their lungs and peep.
They can't peep without internally pipping. For the malpositioned ones that never internally pip, they can't peep until the break through the shell enough to let oxygen in. Again, it only takes a very small crack. It doesn't have to break through the actual membrane either, the membrane is very porous.
So yes, they can't peep until they start breathing oxygen which doesn't happen until the first internal or external pip.

 

[TJAnonymous]

Yes, usually they pip the pointy end if they aren't in the correct position, though they'll pip through the middle of the egg sometimes too. It might be a very tiny pip that doesn't break the membrane but breaks through the shell. That lets in plenty of air for them to fill their lungs and peep.
They can't peep without internally pipping. For the malpositioned ones that never internally pip, they can't peep until the break through the shell enough to let oxygen in. Again, it only takes a very small crack. It doesn't have to break through the actual membrane either, the membrane is very porous.
So yes, they can't peep until they start breathing oxygen which doesn't happen until the first internal or external pip.

OK, this little fella has been chirping since at least yesterday morning. When I first opened the shell into air cell (thinking the egg was dead), it was clearly shrink-wrapped.

I'm not sure if this fella is malpositioned or not. Here's a new video with a close-up. You can clearly see his beak. You can see him chirping. You can also still see small little veins which is why I haven't done more to assist yet.

Here's a close-up of his eggtooth push at the membrane which stretches but doesn't break.

To clarify - this egg was horribly cracked due to a coop accident. Repaired with beeswax and moved into the incubator. I honestly thought it was a dead egg...

 

[MGG]

OK, this little fella has been chirping since at least yesterday morning. When I first opened the shell into air cell (thinking the egg was dead), it was clearly shrink-wrapped.

I'm not sure if this fella is malpositioned or not. Here's a new video with a close-up. You can clearly see his beak. You can see him chirping. You can also still see small little veins which is why I haven't done more to assist yet.

Here's a close-up of his eggtooth push at the membrane which stretches but doesn't break.

To clarify - this egg was horribly cracked due to a coop accident. Repaired with beeswax and moved into the incubator. I honestly thought it was a dead egg...

I don't know that it looks shrink-wrapped. Was the membrane extremely dark yellow?
I'd break through some of that goopy liquid and clear it. Anything that isn't veins or doesn't have veins running through it I'd get out. That's enough liquid to get in his lungs and drown him.
He looks positioned correctly but it's hard to tell with the goo. Get that out and get new pics, it should be easier to tell then. Do you have it in an incubator I'm guessing? What's humidity at?

 

[MGG]

Oh nvm I see the incubator in the background of your second video now.

 

[TJAnonymous]

I don't know that it looks shrink-wrapped. Was the membrane extremely dark yellow?
I'd break through some of that goopy liquid and clear it. Anything that isn't veins or doesn't have veins running through it I'd get out. That's enough liquid to get in his lungs and drown him.
He looks positioned correctly but it's hard to tell with the goo. Get that out and get new pics, it should be easier to tell then. Do you have it in an incubator I'm guessing? What's humidity at?

When I first opened into the air cell (when I thought it was a dead egg), the inner membrane was white but was suctioned to the duckling's body like it was vacuum sealed. The duckling was hardly moving and not making any sound. At that time, the incubator humidity was around 60%. I immediately coated the membrane with mineral oil which is why it looks goopy. It's just light reflection, I think. I tried to peel back some shell so I could get a better look and inadvertently tore one of the really small veins. That's when the duckling began chirping. I stopped messing with it, put it back in the incubator, and upped humidity to 75%. I've been reapplying mineral oil every 5 - 6 hrs to keep it from drying out but have done nothing else with the egg other than watch it. It does chirp intermittently and also shakes the entire egg from time to time but hasn't changed its internal position at all.

 

[TJAnonymous]

I don't know that it looks shrink-wrapped. Was the membrane extremely dark yellow?
I'd break through some of that goopy liquid and clear it. Anything that isn't veins or doesn't have veins running through it I'd get out. That's enough liquid to get in his lungs and drown him.
He looks positioned correctly but it's hard to tell with the goo. Get that out and get new pics, it should be easier to tell then. Do you have it in an incubator I'm guessing? What's humidity at?

OK, I peeled back more of the shell and found where he has pipped through the membrane. The membrane is definitely dark yellow and there's a noticeable gap between the membrane and the outer shell.

Trying to show the yellow membrane -

 

[MGG]

When I first opened into the air cell (when I thought it was a dead egg), the inner membrane was white but was suctioned to the duckling's body like it was vacuum sealed. The duckling was hardly moving and not making any sound. At that time, the incubator humidity was around 60%. I immediately coated the membrane with mineral oil which is why it looks goopy. It's just light reflection, I think. I tried to peel back some shell so I could get a better look and inadvertently tore one of the really small veins. That's when the duckling began chirping. I stopped messing with it, put it back in the incubator, and upped humidity to 75%. I've been reapplying mineral oil every 5 - 6 hrs to keep it from drying out but have done nothing else with the egg other than watch it. It does chirp intermittently and also shakes the entire egg from time to time but hasn't changed its internal position at all.

Personally I only consider something shrink-wrapped if the membrane is yellow. White/thin = moist and yellow/rubbery = dry. White is ok even if it seems tight, usually that's from it being a larger than average duckling and stretching it out extra. They seem to be able to hatch just fine unless they're too big to actually turn in the egg. I've only ever had that happen with hybrids where the hen is significantly smaller than the drake.
Oh ok I was wondering if that was oil. I like triple antibiotic ointment better to keep the membrane moist, it's thicker and doesn't drip and run so much.
Do you see any yawning? I've never seen anything online about this but I always candle the pointy end of my eggs to gauge if they're ready or not. It has been extremely reliable and helpful. When the ducklings shifts into hatching position and occupies most of the air cell it leaves a large gap at the pointy end of the egg, which contains all of the yolk and blood vessels. Candling this area you can see how many veins and how much yolk are left. I really like being able to do this because I know exactly when they're ready instead of just assisting blindly hoping I don't hit veins. I have a handful of eggs hatching now, I'll see if I can get pics or video of what I mean. I'm not sure if any are close enough yet. The only eggs I can't do it well on are dark eggs.
But I only really incubate ducks now anyway and their eggs are plenty light enough. Even thick eggs I can tell decently on.