Update: (City Oppression) Milford tickets 93 year old man for hens

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"I believe the city and the judge where he lives look like fools to not let the man keep his measely three hens. What a bunch of turds."

They didn't really have a choice. The way RTFA is written it is an incredibly dangerous law for all lower forms of government. Many townships want to allow small farms, but if you allow one you can't regulate it and you can't ever get rid of it because of the way RTFA is written.

If the legislature were to amend RTFA to give the lower governments more power, or if they clarified that it didn't apply to farms below a certain size, then this whole mess would go away.

It's not really the fault of the courts or the municipalities. It is the legislature's fault.
 
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No

All right then. I will answer your question when you show me some court cases. After all, I asked first!
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Personally, I am dying to know how the RTF doesn't apply to zoning. Isn't zoning a local ordinance which the RTF specifically overrides? My zoning states that agricultural uses are permitted if you have 10 acres. Again, local ordinance. Nowhere in the amendment to the RTFA does it say your farm has to be created before zoning changes. It's either preexisting or commercial and following the gaamp. It doesn't say both! And if the RTF doesn't override zoning than why does the Michigan Association of Planning have an entire policy platform saying it does? Aren't they the ones who make all the ordinances the the RTF supposedly doesn't override? http://www.planningmi.org/downloads/rtfa_board_adopted_policy_feb_19_2010.pdf
 
Mcbeers asked a difficult, and excellent, question recently: Define a legally created farm.

My initial response was, admittedly, difficult to understand. After thinking about the question for awhile, I realized there is a better way to explain it that people might understand. The question IS difficult to answer in a way that makes sense to most people, but I think I may have figured it out, so here goes nothing.

Let's ask a simpler question first: What is the definition of legally obtained money? There are many ways to obtain money. You can find it, earn it with a job, get it as a gift, make it in the stock market, get it as interest on savings, almost unlimited ways. You can also steal it or print it. We can't list all the ways to get it legally but we CAN list all the ways it can be gotten illegally, by looking at the laws. This means that the easiest way to define it is to say "well, if you didn't obtain it illegally, then it's legally obtained money!". We can easily check any obtained money to determine if it is legally obtained or not by asking if it violates any laws. Hopefully this makes sense because, if it doesn't, you should get good legal advice before starting any suspicious endeavour.

Now if you obtain money illegally, are you entitled to use ANY law to keep it? Of course not! That is so ridiculous that most people laugh it the very mentioning of it.

Now let's see how well we can define an legally created commercial farm. Using the same logic, we would say that an legally created farm is one that was not created illegally. Looking to case law we find that there are in fact very few situations where a farm was ruled to be created illegally. In fact, there is only one that really sticks out as illegal creation. From Jerome Township vs Milchi in 1990: The appeals court concluded that apiary was a farm operation for purposes of the RTFA, but the RTFA did not apply since the apiary did not exist prior to the 1965 zoning ordinance.

So we have a definition for a legally created farm. It is any farm that is created without violating zoning ordinances in existence at the time of startup. This actually IS the definition the courts use, and they use it consistently. This definition will potentially change over time. If something else becomes illegal, that condition must be added to the definition. For example, say the legislature makes the (ridiculous) ruling that it is illegal to raise both chickens and horses on a farm. In that case the definition of a legal farm would be any farm that was created without violating any zoning laws at the time of startup AND is not raising both chickens and horses.

If you create a farm illegally, are you entitled to use ANY law to keep it? Of course not! People are arguing this anyways. RTFA does not apply in this situation.

The courts really have been amazingly consistent in their use of RTFA in accordance with this definition. In fact they have NEVER strayed from it as far as I can tell. Since it is a fundamental doctrine of law that you can not break the law to obtain it's protections, the circuit court made a totally correct ruling in Jerome Township vs Milchi. In every case where RTFA was successfully used to get around a zoning ordinance, the farm was not violating any zoning ordinances at the time it was created. It's easy to verify for yourself.

I am sorry if people are not happy with this, but this really is how things work, or at least how things have worked so far. If you have an illegal farm, you might not want to put so much time and money into it that it will hurt if/when you get shut down.
 
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I mean no offense but if you think it's a review of everything already stated, you didn't understand what I wrote. It is a challenging legal concept yet your post is only a few minutes after mine.

I also accept your position and can understand it. Many people want desperately to do something that is illegal. They will grasp at any hope that it can be argued to be legal. People who want to use RTFA to defend creating illegal farms are grasping at air. That is not my opinion. That is the opinion, and a direct statement, of the Michigan Circuit Court of Appeals.
 
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Wow.
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I guess I assumed everyone was allowed an opinion here.

I'm with dianaross on this one.....and actually everything you have said is negative and non supportive..do you hate chickens? It doesn't say where you are from? you seem to understand law quite well...so if you are a lawyer how about some support instead of what you are doing? Put all those research skills into helping Back yard Chicken owners not just shooting them down.
 
No I don't hate chickens. I am all for farming where farming is allowed. I like eggs and chicken meat. I would probably raise chickens myself if it were allowed on my property. If I had the required 5 acres to establish a farm I could put the coop in the back where it wouldn't bother anyone.

Like most reasonable people I DO hate people who think they are above the law and start farming where it clearly isn't allowed. If you move into a residential area where farming is not allowed it is reasonable to expect that a farm, with all it's smells and noises, won't be popping up next door.

As for helping, I am doing that right now with my city. My neighbor established a large coop right next to my back patio. We have manure stink all the time. I get woken up by roosters every morning at 4 AM. As a result I am currently educating the zoning enforcement officer and the city attorney about when RTFA does and doesn't apply. They have been quite grateful for my help so far, and admit they were misinformed by the property owners. They have told me they will soon be talking to other nearby municipalities.
 
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He is actually against chickens. He is not here to learn or to help either. He has a neighbor who has chickens, and he wants them gone. He came here to see what he could learn about MRTFA that could hurt his case. I am not upset to hear from what I guess you would call our opposition. Better now, than in the court room. At least gives us an idea of what we might hear. Most of this is nothing that I haven't heard already personally. But information none the less. Don't expect him to be helpful to us though. He is trying to discourage people from having backyard chickens.
 
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All laws and anything else aside, most people who have chickens in their backyards, will not have smell issues or noise issues, certainly not any worse than most dog owners. Especially if they are following GAAMPS. Most municipalities already have laws against excessive noise or smells. You don't need to ban chickens for those reasons alone. Should we ban barking dogs, and dogs who poop in people's yards too, based just on those two factors?
 
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