US sued over Navy sonar tests in whale waters..

[Spookwriter]

And there comes a day when our enemys disguise thier subs
to look like a whale.

We can't shoot that, now can we...


Spook

 

[OldGuy43]

I read somewhere that whales can hear each other as much a 100 miles away. Whale populations have been falling ever since sailing ships were replaced by steam due to the noise pollution from propellers. How many of these "save the whales" groups use sail exclusively and how many use something with an engine and a propeller?

 

[EmtheFishLady]

If you read the article, nowhere did I see where they were requesting they DIDN'T use sonar ever. They are asking for a few simple safety measures for the wildlife in the area. None of it seemed unreasonable to me. Other countries are also considering safety precautions. Many of these stranding incidents aren't just one or two whales. It has been upwards of 200 at a time. That is a big deal. Whales have long gestational periods. A single loss is a great one. The deaths of these whales and dolphins are not instant nor are they painless. I see no reason to deliberately cause suffering in innocent animals just so we can practice. Especially when it's so avoidable. Anyone who has seen one of these animals stranded in person would realize just how horrible a death it is for them.

 

[Capvin]

Every death is horrible especially so when it is avoidable. If you look into it further you will find that Em is absolutely correct that this is not a choice between the Navy testing it's sonar and whales. There is nothing here to suggest anyone is comparing the safety of our entire country to the safety of whales. Both are not mutually inconsistent and the Navy can test the sonar without harming the whales. Both are important and it is not necessary to choose which one is the most important.

 

[sourland]

Every death is horrible especially so when it is avoidable. If you look into it further you will find that Em is absolutely correct that this is not a choice between the Navy testing it's sonar and whales. There is nothing here to suggest anyone is comparing the safety of our entire country to the safety of whales. Both are not mutually inconsistent and the Navy can test the sonar without harming the whales. Both are important and it is not necessary to choose which one is the most important.

X 2

 

[gritsar]

Quote:

I don't think that whale preservation and the protecting the country are mutually exclusive concepts. There are probably alternatives or precautions that could reduce harm to marine life. By the way for any endangered whale a loss is very significant because of long gestational periods, long time to reach reproductive maturity and the damage (reproductive and to other body systems) caused by the consumption of plankton and fish contaminated with toxins. It very serious, and not just an overreaction on the part of "tree huggers". There are laws protecting endangered whales, too - laws we expect other countries to respect those laws when fishing/using our exclusive economic zone (up to 300 or so miles offshore). These laws are there because many whales are almost gone.

Whales might be more important than a "county", by the way! LOL (Just being silly here, don't get all crazy. )

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Very well spoken RHR and Em.

 

[Ridgerunner]

What do you think of this??
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/26/10244852-us-sued-over-navy-sonar-tests-in-whale-waters

What do I think of this? Red, I think you really enjoy stirring some people up.

If you bother to read the article (I know, why should facts get in the way of an opinion? That takes the fun out of it.) you see that this says absolutely nothing about conduct during warfare. The people filing the lawsuit maintain that a government agency tasked with protecting wildlife did not do its job. They are not saying to stop all testing. They are not saying to not use sonar in the event of war. They are saying relook at the permit with the thought of restricting testing an certain areas at certain times.

On the face if it, it seems a reasonable request to me. How valid it is, I really don't know. That is for the courts to decide according to the law of the land. I do think government agencies should have to follow the law.

I'm fully aware the some people (will you allow me to call them extreme?) will harrass just to be harrassing on either side of a question. The company I was working for at the time was on the receiving end of one of those. We had to delay installing an underwater oil pipeline a year and had to install it in a way and in a location that costs a whole lot more money due to one of these lawsuits. The environmentalist group that did this considered this a huge victory for them. The end result though was that the pipeline route they won was in an area that was more seismically active and the prevailing currents put the envirommentally sensative area (The Flower Gardens) in more danger than the original route in case there ever was a leak. Let me translate that. The route they forced us to take was more dangerous to the environment than the route we wanted to take. I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for those folks when they come out with their requests.

I'm also aware that some environmental friendly groups do some very good work. Ducks Unlimited is a great example. I like what the Nature Conservancy does.

I try not to jump to conclusions based on one article on the internet. I know. I lead a boring life. My comment when I saw that article about testing shrimp on treadmills was"Makes more sense than using elephants! Costs a lot less to feed them and its easier to clean up after them."

 

[redhen]

Stirring, Ridge?? Really?? Huh...funny
Actually the only person I see "stirring" here is you...
I thought it was an interesting news story.. :/

 

[redhen]

I really don't know enough either way if the Navy NEEDED to use those waters or not..
I don't know about sonar, subs, bombs and what the Navy may have been REALLY testing in those waters for..
I know nothing about what is REALLY needed to protect our waters...
I also don't know enough about whales or dolphins and their sonar...
I DO know that I hate to see ANY creature harmed though...especially whales or dolphins that are so super, super intelligent.
But again, I don't know nearly enough of what's really going on in the Navy to say either way...