Use antibiotics and get poisoned eggs and hens!

[jmc]

Quote:
You also make a good point.

What about people who do not have access to a qualified vet? What are such to do?

As a newcomer, I took every precaution to give the chicks I got this May everything needed--to a tee. Yet within a week of arrival sneezing began and all sneeze, and sometimes gape, and one with bubbly eye. Their environ. was kept perfect. What is one to do in this situation, when maybe he/she has gotten less than perfectly strong birds?

In my case I either do what I can with the means I have to help them, or I do nothing and hope all goes well

OR, watch them die off--at my own hands or at the hands of the 'perceived illness' once freezing winter comes in and they fall prey to stress.

The birds we have here continue to be in a great environment--apparently that wasn't enough.


Edited to say that:

If there are knowledgeable people in these matters who look at this site and question what is done, it might be helpful to alot of people if they actually posted a bit more frequently, to help others out.

 

[Windy Ridge]

Terramycin in particular tends to bond to calcium (this is why, in humans, pregnant women should not take it during certain periods of the pregnancy because it could cause permanent discoloration of the teeth of the infant). Since hens excrete a lot of calcium (as shells) it probably doesn't stay in their bodies very long. However... as Silkiechicken said, studies don't tend to be done on chickens because, commercially at least, it's usually easier for large producers to just cull sick hens. There is just not a lot of profit that pharm-agras expect to see in testing drugs on chickens when it costs so little to replace them.

It's only the people who regard chickens as their pets that are in the least interested in this--a very sad thing!

If you talk to vets, they will give you different answers as to what kind of withdrawal time you should use for various antibiotics. You have to look at all the material you can find and use your judgment for your personal situation.

For instance, I'm allergic to Erythromycin (gallimycin), so I would probably use a very long withdrawal time for eggs if I had to use that antibiotic on my girls. I personally use terramycin when I must on my chickens because I have taken it before myself with no problems, and it is not thought to last a long time in their systems. It is also relatively inexpensive.

 

[patandchickens]

The reason they say 'do not use' rather than stating withdrawal times is because nobody has bothered to do studies to find out what withdrawal time would be. On account of, as silkiechicken says, it is cheaper to cull than treat, on commercial farms. Commercial farms are what drives research, and if they do not CARE what withdrawal times would be, then nobody funds a study about it. Understandable.

So it's really just "we don't know, at least we don't know for-sure enough to go out on a legal limb about it". Which is a whole lot different than "it has been shown to be actively dangerous to you to eat them eggs".

You know, it is not like the antibiotics are likely to magically transform into, like, plutonium or cyanide inside the chicken's body

As others have said, the question is just 'how much do you want to chance a tiny amount of this antibiotic making it into the egg you eat?" I am all for radically-minimizing the amount of antibiotics slung around this world, but I think that in this case it is not unreasonable to develop one's own personal "withdrawal time" guess for some of these things. It's different if you're selling eggs or meat, of course.

JMO,

Pat

 

[lurky]

I was just told that the only reason for such 'warnings' is because there are no tests that have been done to determine the safety of the meat or eggs after the meds are no longer in use. So this is just required as a warning. I think its for laibility and we will have to use our own judgement as to when we think they are clear.

 

[Wynette]

This is a very helpful thread - I appreciate that it didn't get sidetracked and no one's feelings were hurt, and no one was mean or nasty in their replies/opinions/feedback.

It's a heartbreaking decision to make regarding whether to treat or not. Another thing to note is that if you've got a particularly nasty bug you are treating for, even if you opt to treat and your flock gets well, they will most likely still be carriers of the disease for quite a long time to come, and could infect future flock additions. This is why many folks cull their sick birds rather than treat. I understand both sides of that fence, but it sure doesn't make the decision any easier. Sigh.....

 

[speckledhen]

Myself, I do not treat poultry with antibiotics for a variety of reasons. On the other hand I don't seem to have the problems with disease that many here seem to be having. I believe that the best way to keep poultry healthy is to feed them well, provide them with pleanty of clean water, keep their environment clean, give them room to exercise and if you do have a sick bird cull it from your flock.

I agree with NYreds 100%. You need to think before casually (or desperately) pulling out the Terramycin or any other antibiotic, especially if you sell eggs. I have a customer with a heart condition who pointedly asked me if I used antibiotics in their feed. She cannot have any antibiotic residue or she could compromise her health.

As a newcomer, I took every precaution to give the chicks I got this May everything needed--to a tee. Yet within a week of arrival sneezing began and all sneeze, and sometimes gape, and one with bubbly eye. Their environ. was kept perfect. What is one to do in this situation, when maybe he/she has gotten less than perfectly strong birds?

In my case I either do what I can with the means I have to help them, or I do nothing and hope all goes well

OR, watch them die off--at my own hands or at the hands of the 'perceived illness' once freezing winter comes in and they fall prey to stress.

The birds we have here continue to be in a great environment--apparently that wasn't enough.

It's a harsh reality, but if you treat birds in your flock instead of culling them, you weaken your flock's health overall. I know it's hard, but chickens are not like children in this regard: kids do not become carriers of many of the illnesses they overcome through antibiotic use. Chickens do frequently seem to recover, but the illness is still lurking, ready to infect the rest of your flock when they are under any type of stress.

Wynette, you're right, it is never easy.​

 

[miss_jayne]

i am so allergic to Erythromyacin that i can't even have it in a topical solution for acne etc.
eating an egg with a trace could kill me. i cannot touch the powder or the same result.

so, i cull birds. if they are treated, there are illnesses that can still be carried etc. i want a strong, healthy flock. it's hard to do, but it works and keeps my flock stable.

but, also i am not one sided on the subject. there are reasons to use many types of treatment.

in the end, you have to weigh the odds and determine what is going to work for your situation.

 

[jmc]

Quote:
I agree with NYreds 100%. You need to think before casually (or desperately) pulling out the Terramycin or any other antibiotic, especially if you sell eggs. I have a customer with a heart condition who pointedly asked me if I used antibiotics in their feed. She cannot have any antibiotic residue or she could compromise her health.

As a newcomer, I took every precaution to give the chicks I got this May everything needed--to a tee. Yet within a week of arrival sneezing began and all sneeze, and sometimes gape, and one with bubbly eye. Their environ. was kept perfect. What is one to do in this situation, when maybe he/she has gotten less than perfectly strong birds?

In my case I either do what I can with the means I have to help them, or I do nothing and hope all goes well

OR, watch them die off--at my own hands or at the hands of the 'perceived illness' once freezing winter comes in and they fall prey to stress.

The birds we have here continue to be in a great environment--apparently that wasn't enough.

It's a harsh reality, but if you treat birds in your flock instead of culling them, you weaken your flock's health overall. I know it's hard, but chickens are not like children in this regard: kids do not become carriers of many of the illnesses they overcome through antibiotic use. Chickens do frequently seem to recover, but the illness is still lurking, ready to infect the rest of your flock when they are under any type of stress.

Wynette, you're right, it is never easy.​

Speckle, Wynette, Nyreds, and all:

I guess if I had experience I would have removed the first sneezer I ever saw. I remember so clearly that first sneeze. But I thought, "Odd, yes, but probably normal." I only thought something was truly wrong weeks later. I meant well, but that's how you learn I guess. I guess I'm not gonna do anything beyond VetRx and Poultry Vits. Electros. and Probios. to help em boost.

The Tylan I just got online, and the soon to arrive Oxine, I guess I'll just leave 'on the shelf' to expire. The birds cost 14.70. The Oxine alone cost 25--

 

[speckledhen]

We all live and learn. And sneezing isn't necessarily a real problem so no need to panic if you hear one. Mine sneeze if they eat too fast or dunk their head in the water bowl or dustbathe vigorously. I just happened to have made my policy before I ever had chickens, so I am ready if I ever have anyone with respiratory illness. Good luck to you, chickenmonk.