Using Diatamaceous Earth in chickens feed to keep lice, mites, and ticks away?

[PDXcluck]

"Doesn't lime carry with it similar respiratory risks"
Depends on the type of lime.

"DE powder is crushed diatoms and therefore the silica, alumina, and iron oxide are all contained together within the tiny bits of diatom shell that make up the powder" Yes they say there is to be some diatoms (hard shell algae) but they don't state the amount.

"Therefore, the health risks of each of them as individual substances don't necessarily apply."
If that is what you believe that is fine with me.

Chris

I know what diatoms are, thanks

I am pretty sure that it is ALL diatoms. I don't think it has filler in it, at least if you buy 100% food grade diatomaceous earth, all the MSDS and product info I could find indicate that is exactly what it is. The diatom shells themselves are what contains silica (primary) alumina, calcium, iron oxide, etc...

http://cdn.arbico-organics.com/downloads/msds-diatomaceous-earth-fossil-shell-flour.pdf

Therefore assessing the health impacts of DE by evaluating the risks associated with it's individual components, which are not 'free' for you to be exposed to, but instead 'locked up' in the shell of the diatoms, is not good science. It's like evaluating health impacts of DDT by saying, "well carbon isn't bad for you and neither is hydrogen, and they put chlorine in our water so DDT must be OK." (point being, DDT is horrible for you but is made up of only carbon, hydrogen and chlorine).

It doesn't work that way, it's not just "something I believe".

EDIT TO ADD: it is also highly unlikely that normal human metabolism would break down the diatom shells so that any of the above mentioned substances (aluminum, iron oxide, etc.) would be bioavailable in any way within your body. If it goes in as a diatom shell, it will come out as a diatom shell. There are no data I can find indicating any health risks to eating it in small quantities. In addition, the type of silica that food grade DE is comprised of is almost all (>99%) amorphus silica, and less then 0.5% crystalline silica. Crystalline silica is quite harmful when breathed in, however amorphus silica doesn't carry with it this additional risk (obviously inhalation of any dust is bad).

 

[suezqz_64]

Chris09,

Doesn't lime carry with it similar respiratory risks?

Also, based on my limited understanding of DE, the chemical breakdown you listed above is a little misleading. It sounds like it is silica, alumina and iron oxide as individual components that make up the DE powder. However, as I understand it,l DE powder is crushed diatoms and therefore the silica, alumina, and iron oxide are all contained together within the tiny bits of diatom shell that make up the powder. Therefore, the health risks of each of them as individual substances don't necessarily apply.

I am brand new to chickens but not to chemistry and it seems like the potential health effects from DE are being overstated, and furthermore not relatively compared to the alternatives, e.g. Sevin dust.

I have some DE that I am planning on putting to use on a limited basis. I am not planning on mixing it into the feed as wormer, though I am considering mixing it into the feed if I find I have a problem with insects in the feed. I also plan on mixing it lightly into my hens preferred dust bathing locale once in awhile as a lice and mite preventative.

I would be very interested in more evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, regarding use of DE as a wormer.

I agree. The constituent elements you listed, found in DE are contained in the diotom as a whole. Crushing these shells doesn't release these elements. Also there is a great difference between industrial DE and food grade DE. I think any dust you inhale would be harmful to lungs period. There's a lot of info out there about DE but most of it is from industrial studies done to evaluate worker safety.

 

[suezqz_64]

I guess I should have read the whole thread before I posted. But I arrived at the same conclusions independently so.... I think it boils down to what risks you're willing to take with yourself and your flock.

 

[Chris09]

I know what diatoms are, thanks

I am pretty sure that it is ALL diatoms. I don't think it has filler in it, at least if you buy 100% food grade diatomaceous earth, all the MSDS and product info I could find indicate that is exactly what it is. The diatom shells themselves are what contains silica (primary) alumina, calcium, iron oxide, etc...

http://cdn.arbico-organics.com/downloads/msds-diatomaceous-earth-fossil-shell-flour.pdf

Therefore assessing the health impacts of DE by evaluating the risks associated with it's individual components, which are not 'free' for you to be exposed to, but instead 'locked up' in the shell of the diatoms, is not good science. It's like evaluating health impacts of DDT by saying, "well carbon isn't bad for you and neither is hydrogen, and they put chlorine in our water so DDT must be OK." (point being, DDT is horrible for you but is made up of only carbon, hydrogen and chlorine).

It doesn't work that way, it's not just "something I believe".

EDIT TO ADD: it is also highly unlikely that normal human metabolism would break down the diatom shells so that any of the above mentioned substances (aluminum, iron oxide, etc.) would be bioavailable in any way within your body. If it goes in as a diatom shell, it will come out as a diatom shell. There are no data I can find indicating any health risks to eating it in small quantities. In addition, the type of silica that food grade DE is comprised of is almost all (>99%) amorphus silica, and less then 0.5% crystalline silica. Crystalline silica is quite harmful when breathed in, however amorphus silica doesn't carry with it this additional risk (obviously inhalation of any dust is bad).

So if the algae shells are the "key" to DE working so well wouldn't you think that ground oyster shells would do the same?

Chris

 

[Aeropennchick]

Found a link to a study from another DE discussion - this study tested ingesting and dusting with DE:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21673156

The summary states:

"The results of this study indicate the DE has the potential to be an effective treatment to help control parasites and improve production of organically raised, free-range layer hens"

 

[Aeropennchick]

I have been keeping it in the poop boards with the PDZ, sprinkling it around the run, and mixing a bit in with my chicken's food. I am still planning on doing a biannual worming, though, to be on the safe side.

 

[NYREDS]

Some dog people use it in dog food as a dewormer, claiming it damages the exoskeleton of parasites and kills them. I cannot find science to back this up, though. My puppy had tapeworms and is getting DE in her food, but I also used a drug on her to be safe.

You won't find science to back it up because it's nonsense.

 

[NYREDS]

Ashes are fine, I would bet it a lot heather than DE.

Chris

Cheaper too.

 

[PDXcluck]

Quote: Originally Posted by SouthernAlberta  Some dog people use it in dog food as a dewormer, claiming it damages the exoskeleton of parasites and kills them. I cannot find science to back this up, though. My puppy had tapeworms and is getting DE in her food, but I also used a drug on her to be safe.   You won't find science to back it up because it's nonsense.

Actually, the link two posts up provides science showing DE is effective against some internal parasites in at least one breed of laying hen.

 

[PDXcluck]

Here is a great fact sheet on DE.

http://www.deq.state.or.us/er/docs/LowerBridge/DiatomaceousEarthFactSheet.pdf